Mellel documents not opening... with Tiger on iBook!

[JFM]

I have been using Mellel as one of my word processors for the past three years. Always stable - until now.

Today, as I attempt to open Mellel documents on my iBook G4, running Tiger, version 10.4.11 (yes, latest version of Mellel, permissions repaired, running Onyx regularly), I am just unable to open any document: spinning wheel.

I am able to open Mellel, bot not to open existing documents from within Mellel. I can however create a new document. But once it is saved and closed, I am unable to reopen it.

Of course, I have attempted to repair permissions several times, to close all other applications, to shut my Mac, launch it again, start Mellel first before opening any other application (in case there is some conflicting application): to no avail.

Last week, I was still able to open Mellel. Once however, last week,I had the same problem, but restarting my Mac solved it: no longer this time.

Mellel works fine on my iMac G5 (running Tiger too) - and I can open without any problem on my iMac documents I am unable to open on my iBook.

Really, I am surprised: never expected something like that with Mellel. What do you suggest?

[miles11]

I have attempted to repair permissions several times, to close all other applications, to shut my Mac, launch it again, start Mellel first before opening any other application...

I once had a similar problem with a different app. I had to open a Get Info window for one of the files in question, use the pull-down menu to set the app to use when opening that kind of file and, check the Ownership & Permissions settings— Read/write permissions (one of the settings is for No Access).

In my case, one of the settings had somehow changed. Everything worked fine after adjusting those settings.

Don't know if this will help but it takes only a moment to check this. That would be my next step.

[jannuss]

To add to Meles's excellent suggestions:

Whenever I've had problems like these, they turned out to be disk problems -- usually hardware.

You need to do three things
-- backup!!!!!!!
-- keep an eye out for indications of disk trouble (unusual noises, unusually slow opening/closing files, etc.)
-- also, there's a trick that forces OS X to rewrite some of the basic file system tables: rename your disk; wait a number of seconds, then you can rename it back if you prefer.

Janet

[JFM]

Thank you for that good idea, I have made an attempt, but unfortunately it is not the root of the problem: permissions and ownership are correct.

Of course, I have uninstalled and reinstalled Mellel on my iBook, but it has not solved the problem.

Actually, it is getting still stranger: out of a few dozen Mellel files on my iBook, I manage to open two or three! Not very recent ones, documents created last year. All the other documents make Mellel freeze, and I have to forcequit it. And among other documents, there are older ones as well as more recent ones - no consistency at all in that behaviour. However, regarding those two or three documents, I can open them without any problem as often as I want (and I had not opened them for months). While documents created last week are out of access.

That is really strange. If all documents I can no longer open would be in one file, I would understand: I would assume the file has got corrupted in some way - however, even that explanation couldn't be valid, since I can open ALL documents on my iMac.

It goes really beyond my understanding. Never seen something like that, and quite difficult to figure any explanation - especially since I have discovered that a few documents can still be opened.

[jannuss]

It goes really beyond my understanding. Never seen something like that, and quite difficult to figure any explanation - especially since I have discovered that a few documents can still be opened.

This is sounding more and more like a disk problem.

Try renaming the problematic files and moving them to another folder.

Janet

[JFM]

Whenever I've had problems like these, they turned out to be disk problems -- usually hardware.

Thank you, Janet, it is true that I had not considered that possibility: I will right now clone my iBook, just in case, in order to have all the files safe and accessible if there is a crash. I do a complete clone of my iMac at least once a week, but less frequently a clone of my iBook, so this is an excellent suggestion.

By the way, I just ran Onyx, which inspects the disk before running, and it didn't report any problem.

[JFM]

Try renaming the problematic files and moving them to another folder.

I have attempted to do that, but it does not change anything: I can rename and move to another place files which don't open, but it does not help.

Maybe one additional information: if I attempt to open a file in the older .mell format (I have still a few of them), I get the message asking me if I want to convert them to the new format or not. And in one case, it actually converted it to the new format and opened it. In the other cases, it froze, as it does with more recent files.

If it is a disk problem, I should take the problem very seriously, since I will soon leave for a 4 week long professional travel overseas, during which I will need to use my iBook frequently. (But frankly, since I hope that Apple will release a ultra-light laptop next month, I would prefer not to need to replace my three year old iBook right now - I already replaced the battery two months ago, in order to give it full power, and it has indeed significantly improved.)

[Mart°n]

That problem seems to be a tricky one. Maybe you could do some more tests (after having cloned your iBook drive). First, you could try to open one of the problematic documents with Mellel on your iMac and save the very same text into a new document (save as…). Then try to open this file on your iBook.
Next, you could do the same as above, but try to disable compression on your iMac-Mellel (Mellel > Preferences… > Open & Save > uncheck: Use compressed file format) Then try to open the file on your iBook.
One thing you could do while performing both tests, is to open the Console application (Applications > Utilities > Console) and watch if there are any error reports from Mellel (or Mac OS) while you’re trying to open the documents.

Could you remember if the problem occurred after an update (10.4.11 or one of the latest security updates) or if you have installed some new software (driver, helper-application, tool)?
A hardware defect is the first thing that comes to my mind too but often it isn’t that hard. Repairing permissions wouldn’t help in this special case (as those permissions only were corrected for applications that are installed with an OS X installer and therefore have placed a little information package in the “Macintos HD > Library > Receipts” folder – so neither Mellel nor your private files will be “repaired”) Both, Onyx and the Disk Utility application could only detect some specific hardware failures so you shouldn’t count too much on their report “no problems found”, but let’s look at that later.

[JFM]

That problem seems to be a tricky one. Maybe you could do some more tests (after having cloned your iBook drive). First, you could try to open one of the problematic documents with Mellel on your iMac and save the very same text into a new document (save as…). Then try to open this file on your iBook.
Next, you could do the same as above, but try to disable compression on your iMac-Mellel (Mellel > Preferences… > Open & Save > uncheck: Use compressed file format) Then try to open the file on your iBook.
One thing you could do while performing both tests, is to open the Console application (Applications > Utilities > Console) and watch if there are any error reports from Mellel (or Mac OS) while you’re trying to open the documents.

Thank you for such a careful, detailed reply. I have done as instructed. Both with compressed and uncompressed file formats, no problem at all on my iMac, but complete failure on my iBook.

I have opened also the console as instructed, and carefully checked: no report at all.

However, the system obviously notices something goes wrong: if I go in the Apple "Forcequit" menu, shortly after I attempt to open one of the documents, there is the red warning "does not reply" next to Mellel. And the only way to quit Mellel is to forcequit.

Still, there are three Mellel documents which continue to open without any problem on my iBook. This is what really puzzles me: if the problem would be with all Mellel documents - but why are a few exempt from the problem?

By the way, since you seem well-informed about that, what are the advantages or inconvenience of having/not having the compressed file format?

Could you remember if the problem occurred after an update (10.4.11 or one of the latest security updates) or if you have installed some new software (driver, helper-application, tool)?

Insofar I can remember, indeed, the problem happened after the latest update (one which I installed about a week ago). However, it is strange that no other user seems to have reported such trouble - the only reports I found on the forum had to do with Leopard.

It is not a disaster, since I am still able to open all files on my iMac. But it is really perplexing. I tend to use Mellel without any hesitation, due to its extreme stability - and for the first time I wonder if I shouldn't think twice, especially since a document saved in Mellel format cannot be opened using another application.

A hardware defect is the first thing that comes to my mind too but often it isn’t that hard. Repairing permissions wouldn’t help in this special case (as those permissions only were corrected for applications that are installed with an OS X installer and therefore have placed a little information package in the “Macintos HD > Library > Receipts” folder – so neither Mellel nor your private files will be “repaired”) Both, Onyx and the Disk Utility application could only detect some specific hardware failures so you shouldn’t count too much on their report “no problems found”, but let’s look at that later.

Thank you for those useful clarifications. Hardware failure... yes, maybe, but it is difficult to understand why the problem is only with Mellel. And my iBook hard disk is not overloaded, since the original one was replaced with a new, larger one two years ago - I use less than half the total disk space.

Thank you for your help!

[jannuss]

and for the first time I wonder if I shouldn't think twice, especially since a document saved in Mellel format cannot be opened using another application

Actually, Mellel files are now stored in XML format, so (theoretically at least) they can be read by other applications.

Maybe we should take a look at those files:
-- right-click [cntrl-click] on one of your offending Mellel files
-- from the menu, select show package contents
-- this should open a window containing at least one file: mail.xml.gz
-- double click this gz file
-- this should create a file called main.xml
-- double click this xml file and you should get a TextEdit window full of xml gobbledegook
If you've gotten this far, we know the file hasn't been corrupted.

While you're doing that, I'm going to google xml translators and see if I can find one that works with Mellel files.

JAnet

[ozean]

Could this problem be font related? I only have very little time right now, so I only took a brief glance at this thread. Perhaps you can check if your fonts are validating in Fontbook and you could also try and copy the working fonts from you iMac to you problematic machine… and try some other font voodoo of your liking…

In addition, does the Console application (used to read logs, located in /Applications/Utilities) disclose any information on a possible cause for the failure?

[JFM]

Could this problem be font related? I only have very little time right now, so I only took a brief glance at this thread. Perhaps you can check if your fonts are validating in Fontbook and you could also try and copy the working fonts from you iMac to you problematic machine… and try some other font voodoo of your liking…

In addition, does the Console application (used to read logs, located in /Applications/Utilities) disclose any information on a possible cause for the failure?

Thank you. No, it is not font related: those are just texts, short fieldnotes, written in Lucida Sans or Arial. Moreover, the non offending files are written with the same fonts and open.

As I mentioned in a previous post, the Console does not reveal anything .

[JFM]

and for the first time I wonder if I shouldn't think twice, especially since a document saved in Mellel format cannot be opened using another application

Actually, Mellel files are now stored in XML format, so (theoretically at least) they can be read by other applications.

Maybe we should take a look at those files:
-- right-click [cntrl-click] on one of your offending Mellel files
-- from the menu, select show package contents
-- this should open a window containing at least one file: mail.xml.gz
-- double click this gz file
-- this should create a file called main.xml
-- double click this xml file and you should get a TextEdit window full of xml gobbledegook
If you've gotten this far, we know the file hasn't been corrupted.

While you're doing that, I'm going to google xml translators and see if I can find one that works with Mellel files.

JAnet

Thank you. I took a look - evertyhing opens fine, I get indeed the TextEdit window with the xml content of the documents, which I can easily recognize.

Since I can open my files on my iMac, I could easily export them into RTF or DOC on the iMac, an then copy and open them on my iBook. But I would like, however, to understand what is happening and to be able to use Mellel again on my iBook.

When Mellel freezes at opening, does it create somewhere log files which could be useful?

What is amazing is that I spent several hours writing documents with Mellel on my iBook just 9 days ago. It is true that, in the meantime, I installed the latest Apple Security Updates - and updated some applications (I had been away from home for some time), but no major update neither any new application.

Strange, strange...

[jannuss]

Thank you. I took a look - evertyhing opens fine, I get indeed the TextEdit window with the xml content of the documents, which I can easily recognize.

I'm relieved to hear that the files aren't corrupted, and since you have a workaround available [copying & recopying them to and from the iMac], your immediate problem is solved.

Now, to address the why . . .

There's another recent thread in this forum complaining about Mellel crashes -- his problem turned out to be a conflict with MenuMaster.

I wonder if you've installed something new that could be causing the problem?

It might be a good idea to report all of this to the Redlers [http://www.redlers.com/supportform.html]

Janet

[JFM]

I'm relieved to hear that the files aren't corrupted, and since you have a workaround available [copying & recopying them to and from the iMac], your immediate problem is solved.

Now, to address the why . . .

There's another recent thread in this forum complaining about Mellel crashes -- his problem turned out to be a conflict with MenuMaster.

I wonder if you've installed something new that could be causing the problem?

Indeed, this is not a tragedy. The only problem is that Mellel is no longer of any use on my iBook, since I can create new documents, but once they are saved and closed, I can no longer reopen them. The problem affects all new files which I attempt to create.

Regarding your question: indeed, I wondered if there could be a conflict with some other application. But I don't use so-called "hackies". And the files which open automatically when I launch my iBook (e.g. Overflow for accessing lists of applications for which there is not enough space in the Dock) have been in use on my iBook for a long time, and I use the same ones on my iMac. It is unlikely that they cause the problem. I did not install any new application recently on my iBook, just updated a few when new versions came.

I could indeed report all of this to the Redlers. If I could send them however some report about what is happening, it would probably be helpful to them. Do you have any idea about some log which might contain a lead?

Anyway, in case you come across a lead, thank you for letting me know. And in the meantime, thank you already for the assistance you have been providing so graciously, as well as other contributors to this forum. It is amazing to see how Mac users in different countries can help each other - this is the power of the Web!