.5" Header appears within the 1" Page Margin Parameter

[kveldalf]

I want the body of the text to have 1" margins (from the top of the page), and the header to be .5" (from the top of the page).

1. I have set 1" margins in Document Setup (File > Document Setup…).
2. I have tried setting the header margin at .5" and at .0" (Style Set > Edit style sets … Styles: Page: Default).

Unexpected result: The header appears below the 1" page margin, not .5" from the top of the page. How do you force the header to behave like a header and appear .5" below the page top, and the body of the text to start at 1"?

[DylanMuir]

The margin setting in document setup defines the outside boundary of anything on the page. The header and footer fall inside this margin. To have a header of 0.5" and have the body text start at 1", you should set the page margin to 0.5" and the header size to 0.5". The setting in the page style dialog sets the height of the header, not its offset from the top of the page. The offset for the header is defined by the page margins, in the document setup dialog.

DRM

[adrmckinney]

This work around causes some problems though. It only really works if every page contains both a header and a footer. But after the first page and the footer is gone, my text touches the margin boundary. If I add a footer to compensate then the page number appears. Unless there is a way to set different margins to page styles, then I'm not sure this works. I'm sure I'm missing something but wouldn't it be easier if the header/footers sat outside the margins. That way they could be manipulated without manipulating the text.

[nicka]

That would be great -- a significant step towards good page layout capabilities. A good way of having things would be so that there is a rectangle for main text on each page -- defined by the main margins -- with the possibility of putting text around it in various ways: headers, footers and marginalia, and also text from the main body hanging into the margin.

[jannuss]

nicka. I prefer the way Mellel works now:
-- physical page size and margins defined by the Document Set-up and Page Set-up menus
-- logical text boundaries defined by the Page palette and styles

adrmckinney, Mellel provides page styles and page style break to get the setup you want.

Janet

[rpcameron]

This work around causes some problems though. It only really works if every page contains both a header and a footer. But after the first page and the footer is gone, my text touches the margin boundary. If I add a footer to compensate then the page number appears. Unless there is a way to set different margins to page styles, then I'm not sure this works. I'm sure I'm missing something but wouldn't it be easier if the header/footers sat outside the margins. That way they could be manipulated without manipulating the text.

The best way to manipulate is to set up different page styles. For the pages you do not want to have a footer on, create a blank footer (by putting a NBS or similar in the footer).

The real problem with this, though, is that Mellel only lets you suppress first page headers/footers for a page style section, not actually have different first page headers/footers. Until this is rectified, documents will never be without workarounds that force you to manually deal with pagination issues.

(Edit for correction of grammar ... I shouldn't post before having my morning coffee.)

[adrmckinney]

The real problem with this, though, is that Mellel only lets you suppress first page headers/footers for a page style section, not actually have different first page headers/footers. Until this is rectified, documents will never without workarounds that cause you manually deal with pagination issues.

Indeed! In order to get the desired layout I have to insert a page style break after the last word on the first page of every new chapter and then set the following page to the correct setting. It's doable but seems to be unnecessary. I would rather not have to place a page style break at the end of a page that contains a continuous thought with the next page. (I am open for other suggestions on accomplishing this task!)

In light of Janet's comment (i.e., her preference for the current way Mellel handles margins and such), maybe there is a way to make it optional as to whether the header/footer sits inside the margins or outside the margins. The latter is by far more preferable for me.

[kjmatthews]

In order to get the desired layout I have to insert a page style break after the last word on the first page of every new chapter and then set the following page to the correct setting. It's doable but seems to be unnecessary. I would rather not have to place a page style break at the end of a page that contains a continuous thought with the next page.

I brought this up as well some months ago and suggested that page style breaks should not also include page breaks. No word from the Redlers regarding a solution, of course.

[adrmckinney]

In order to get the desired layout I have to insert a page style break after the last word on the first page of every new chapter and then set the following page to the correct setting.

In light of turning in more papers, I am aware of the fault of my previous suggestion on how to manipulate the margins to remain consistent throughout the entire paper. What I previously suggested worked if I did not have a footnote on the first page of the new chapter. However, if I did have a footnote on the first page of the new chapter, when I inserted the page style break at the end of this page, the footnotes on the next page started over at 1.

So, I am left with the (sad) conclusion that there is no way to maintain a consistent margin size, while also allowing for footnotes that start over at each chapter and allowing for pagination to appear at different positions. If there is a way, it has become far to convoluted to be worth the hassle.

This is a much needed correction!