Free updates for life?

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DylanMuir
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Re: Free updates for life?

Post by DylanMuir » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:07 am

Firstly, free updates is Apple policy, which the Redlers have to abide by to hop on the App Store gravy train. ;) The App store could only increase the exposure of Mellel, so I think it's probably a net "good thing" for them.

Secondly, someone asked about having to re-purchase Mellel on the App store. For Aperture, at least, the App store recognises if you already have the application (pre app store), and won't let you re-purchase. I presume the Redlers could do something similar for Mellel.

DRM

Mart°n
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Re: Free updates for life?

Post by Mart°n » Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:58 pm

DylanMuir wrote:Firstly, free updates is Apple policy, which the Redlers have to abide by to hop on the App Store gravy train. ;) The App store could only increase the exposure of Mellel, so I think it's probably a net "good thing" for them.
This is a »current« policy on the very first version of the MacAppStore. I don’t believe that each and every developer and maybe not even Apple would give free lifetime updates. In the past most if not all those developers charged for updates among them are Apple itself (iWork and Aperture), OmniGroup (OmniGraffle, OmniOutliner, …) BareBones (BBEdit), Equinux (iSale, CoverScout), RealMacSoftware (Rapidweaver) and many more. I don’t think (nor have read any comment regarding their update policy) that all those companies will offer free lifetime updates, even with a growing Mac market share and maybe greater sales through the AppStore. But we’ll see.
DylanMuir wrote: Secondly, someone asked about having to re-purchase Mellel on the App store. For Aperture, at least, the App store recognises if you already have the application (pre app store), and won't let you re-purchase. I presume the Redlers could do something similar for Mellel.
DRM
You’ve been tricked by the AppStore in this regard. The AppStore simply looks inside your applications and looks for a thing called »Bundle Identifyer«. If you have an application installed that has the very same Bundle Identifyer as an AppStore app, the AppStore »assumes« that you’ve already installed this app and marks it as »installed«. But as soon as a new version appears on the AppStore with a different Bundle Identifyer, your currently installed App won’t be recognized as an installed app and you won’t get updates through the AppStore. It’s a fake. And neither the Redlers nor any other developer can do something about it. You could read more at the panic blog: http://www.panic.com/blog/2011/01/panic ... app-store/

ahankinson
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Re: Free updates for life?

Post by ahankinson » Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:47 am

I've continued to follow this thread, and also re-read some of the earlier responses. In my impression, the App Store is still an unknown quantity. I have it, have tried it, and have even bought a few things from it. Then I removed it from my dock, and only check on it from time to time when I'm procrastinating. From my perspective as a long-time Mac user, fairly savvy computer geek, and generally a fan of things that Apple does, it's too early to tell if it will have the same "gold rush" impact on the Mac as it has had on iOS. I would certainly be hedging my bets on that call.

So, I just thought I'd put this out there: Please don't hesitate to change directions if you need to. If the App Store isn't driving the customers to you and you need to go back on the "free upgrades" policy, I will be one of the first in line with money in hand. But since you won't take my money anymore ( :D ) the best I can do is offer some encouragement to get you through the gruelling feature-planning meetings, or week-long bug-hunts.

I think Mellel is the finest word processor out there, and I'm fully committed to it. I think a lot of your users are, since Mellel isn't the type of software that is handed down by departmental decree or forced by IT policy -- your users actively search it out and put their time and energy into learning it. You have people that are not just using your software, but investing in it -- getting their styles just so, or tweaking their auto-titles setups, or making their own set of document templates. I think that shows that you're not just making good software, you're making a professional tool (which is one of the highest compliments I think I can give -- it's the difference between the $10 kitchen knife, and the $1000 kitchen knife).

Please (and I mean this quite literally), keep up the good work.

rmansfield
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Re: Free updates for life?

Post by rmansfield » Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:09 pm

Is there any way for current paid users to get some kind of free code so that the Mac App Store version of Mellel could be downloaded and we could update there from now on?
Richard Mansfield
http://thislamp.com

Mart°n
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Re: Free updates for life?

Post by Mart°n » Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:34 pm

rmansfield wrote:Is there any way for current paid users to get some kind of free code so that the Mac App Store version of Mellel could be downloaded and we could update there from now on?
Currently the AppStore (or Apple) doesn’t offer any way of transforming a normal license to an AppStore license. You only can re-purchase Mellel at the AppStore or wait some weeks/months until Apple offers a solution to this problem.

Roger
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Re: Free updates for life?

Post by Roger » Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:53 pm

Sounds great! Thank you Redlers, for the great news. I look forward to seeing Mellel in the App Store. I trust it will get a lot more exposure, especially from the student population.
________________
Roger
Viña del Mar, Chile

Eyal Redler
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Re: Free updates for life?

Post by Eyal Redler » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:44 pm

I would like to note the following:

1. Mellel is not (yet) selling on the App Store
2. Currently, there is no official way to convert an app store license to a "normal" one or vice versa, Apple may provide something in the future (but I have nothing to base this prediction on beside the fact that it kinda make sense, I may be wrong here)
3. This should not really matter since we are going to continue selling and updating Mellel via the older channels (auto-update, web-site)
4. When we start selling on the app store, people who will buy via the app store will update via the app store. (Apple doesn't permit us to include the auto-update feature with the version sold in the app-store)
Eyal Redler
----------------------
Co-Founder and Developer at Mellel AAR LTD
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/mellelwordprocessor
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/MellelRedlex

Hendrix
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Re: Free updates for life?

Post by Hendrix » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:46 pm

Hi

I'm perfectly happy with this arrangement, and staying with the non-App Store version shouldn't be a problem. Anyhow, Irradiated Software is offering a workaround for its utility Cinch: purchase it from the App Store (if you wish) and send a proof of purchase and you'll get a refund for the original purchase.

One could also imagine it to be a partial refund (a sort of "upgrade"), so the developers don't lose Apple's 30%.

Regards

Manuel
Manuel Aguilar Hendrickson
Departament de Treball social i serveis socials
Universitat de Barcelona
08035 Barcelona (Spain)
manuel.aguilar.hendrickson@ub.edu

redlers
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Re: Free updates for life?

Post by redlers » Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:16 pm

rpcameron wrote:
redlers wrote:The Software market changes: I don't think you'll have the 'traditional' software upgrades in the future. Apple's app store will cause them to vanish.
However, if Mellel switches its distribution to the App store, users will have to repurchase the software. There is no way for users to "import" their license into software purchased via the App store, since it is technically a different version of the software.

How is RedleX going to be able to deliver on the promise of "free updates for life", when that may not be possible? Will Mellel always be distributed both ways (via the website and through the App store), or will users at some point need to repurchase the software?
Can't see if Eyal addressed this (and too lazy to look, I guess) but there shouldn't be a problem here, as far as I can see. Either way - we will distribute both ways, of course, if there is no "unifying" solution. Remember that there is a mechanism set (and now, with 2.8, also working very nicely) for updates from within Mellel.

redlers
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Re: Free updates for life?

Post by redlers » Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:28 pm

Timotheus wrote: But having said this, I would like to add that personally, the last thing I expect from developers whose products I am using, is that they give me lifetime free updates. Why not? Well, simply because in my experience that’s not how things work in life. We all have bills to pay, and developers are certainly no exception to that rule.
Timotheus - I understand you completely, but I wish to remind you, as I've said before, that upgrades are not necessarily our main source of income - word-of-mouth always was and probably always will be how we make our living. People who like Mellel tell others they should buy it.

Second, it is very important to keep things clear. Let's say our sales are half-and-half on the App Store and independently. Would you deem it fair that users of Mellel from the App Store will get a lifetime of updates while others, who buy it from us, will be required to pay for upgrades? I don't think so.

redlers
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Re: Free updates for life?

Post by redlers » Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:33 pm

jannuss wrote:Isn't the "accepted" solution to this dilemma to introduce a "new" product, say Mellell Pro, maintain both products for an decent length of time and then allow the original product to fade out slowly.

And, anyway Apple takes care of things by periodically making system changes that force developers to rewrite large chunks of their applications . . . so it will be with Mellel 11

Janet
:P

Well, expecting around 200,000 users to simply fade away is not very realistic, but perhaps when we have 1,000,000 customers in the App Store by the first 30 days we'll reconsider that!

redlers
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Re: Free updates for life?

Post by redlers » Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:45 pm

Mart°n wrote: So I’m wishing you all the best and I’m happy if this new approach works well but I’m still concerned it could fail. In the latter case your customers (not me) may be upset by the broken promise and the word of mouth by those unhappy customers may turn against you. So offering free updates until 3.x or 4.x or 3 years may have limited this experiment to a foreseeable time frame and you always would have been able to expand it in the future without making users angry about an (eventually) broken promise of free updates for life.

So I may follow kjmatthews advice and gift some Mellel licenses to support you in future.

Keep up the great work and I’ll keep my fingers crossed :D
Mart°n - we're aware of those examples (and have others of our own for broken promises - do you remember Watson? I purchased it and then was very disappointed to see it sold and discontinued). Rest assured that we have plans as to what to do and how to do (well!) in the future.

Marsilius
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Re: Free updates for life?

Post by Marsilius » Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:53 am

A gratuitous shout from LA. I would gladly pay for an update, and assume you guys will keep chugging away. In the meantime:
Mellel rocks. Nekudah.
Best,
Mars

rmansfield
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Re: Free updates for life?

Post by rmansfield » Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:38 pm

I noticed that the price of Mellel in the Mac App Store is currently an incredible $19.99. I admit to being tempted to repurchase it again just to have it via the Mac App Store (which makes for simple reinstalls on any Mac I'm logged into).

At the very least, it's a good time to promote Mellel to those who haven't bought it yet as this price is better than anything offered here on the website.
Richard Mansfield
http://thislamp.com

redlers
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Re: Free updates for life?

Post by redlers » Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:15 am

rmansfield wrote:I noticed that the price of Mellel in the Mac App Store is currently an incredible $19.99. I admit to being tempted to repurchase it again just to have it via the Mac App Store (which makes for simple reinstalls on any Mac I'm logged into).

At the very least, it's a good time to promote Mellel to those who haven't bought it yet as this price is better than anything offered here on the website.
Well, such opportunities come and go without a notice... :-) And a good review there never hurt anybody.

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