Writing direction

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raymond
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Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 9:33 pm

Writing direction

Post by raymond »

Hello,
i would like to ask to have in the coming version of Mellel.
In Mail.app when you write in Hebrew and type the first letter in hebrew, as an example, the writing direction is automatically, by the spirit of Jobs, starts from R2L. The other side exists as well. First letter in English or in other L2R language and mail writes from L2R.

Why not this comfortable feature in Mellel?

TIA
rpcameron
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Re: Writing direction

Post by rpcameron »

Mellel uses a different text engine than Mail and most every other app. The system's text engine (as found in Mail and others) notes which language and text direction a character uses and adjusts/inserts the proper LTR/RTL control characters; Mellel does not do this.

The advantage that Mellel has with this approach is better OpenType support and more complete support for complex RTL scripts, such as Arabic, where character position affects glyph selection—different initial, medial, final and isolated forms, &c. The disadvantage is lack of system support, such as EMACS keybindings, spelling and better language input/keyboard synchronization. Apple's system improves with each release, but it's tied to the OS: different versions of OS X support different features; Mellel's level of support is tied to the application, so it's consistent across different versions of OS X. Both situations offer different advantages and disadvantages. OS X's support is probably on a level of feature parity with Mellel now, but if you're on an earlier release of OS X, that may not be the case.

To see how they differ, check out how TextEdit or Nisus handle your language/script and compre that to Mellel. Depending on the language/script you're working with, such as Devanagari, Mellel might not be the best app for you; Mellel's complex shaping engine does not do well with Indic scripts if I remember correctly, while Apple's text engine has been steadily improving on that front.
— Robert Cameron
raymond
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Re: Writing direction

Post by raymond »

Thank you very much for your very detailed and very good explanations.
I am simple user, utilizing Hebrew, English and French mainly on Mellel, so all the complicated tasks Mellel can handle are not in my environment.
I need and wish that Mellel would adjust itself to the OS text engine. It will enhance, for Hebrew users, its usability as a transformation platform towards the Word on PC, which most PC users in Israel are using. The compatibility between Mellel and Word for PC is highly important for the major part of Mellel Hebrew users. The problem I am describing is unknown to L2R latin languages users, since they have almost perfect compatibility between their Mellel output and the PC Word world. Pages is progressing quickly in its support to Hebrew and R2L support and it's ability to be utilized as the platform to link between Mac user in Hebrew and in Arabic in Israel and PC users here.
If Mellel would not face this challenge it would loose many Mac users here. I hope the Redlers would find the appropriate solution to the problem.
rpcameron
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Re: Writing direction

Post by rpcameron »

Mellel's RTF support should be up to the task for interchange with Word on PC. To make the process easier, have those using Word save their document as RTF, since Mellel's support for Word is pretty bad.
— Robert Cameron
raymond
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Posts: 315
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Re: Writing direction

Post by raymond »

Unfortunately, with all due respect, I suspect you have never tried what you are proposing practically.
You can't ask a PC user to send their documents in RTF format, since most of them do not know what I am speaking about. Those who know won't bother themselves to do so, since for them you can stay where you are with your on the corner software as Mellel. Even Hebrew files created on Word PC and saved as RTF, may be opened by Mellel without too many difficulties the way back will be a fill with obstacle road, and in practice, no way at all.
This is the risk for Mellel in Israel that Pages would replace it slowly but quite vigorously. IOS has wonderful Hebrew support with a very good speller, and this support is coming soon to Pages. The Redlers are preparing a version for iPad, so apparently, it will support Hebrew as it will be based on iOS, including Hebrew speller and dictionary.
While, I am writing here on the forum Apple support for the speller is embedded. This is what I am asking for Mellel.
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