Collaborating using rtf format plus Bookends

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yinglam
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Collaborating using rtf format plus Bookends

Post by yinglam »

Dear everyone,

I have been using Mellel/Bookends for a few years and I am about to use them for my PhD dissertation. I have read quite a lot of posts here on collaboration between Mellel and MS word, so presumably I assume rtf is the best format I should use. However, there is a problem that I can't solve. After getting comments from my colleagues on my rtf format, how can I better retain my 'living' (sorry, don't know how to describe) bookends bibliography?

Let me explain my workflow:

1. Use Mellel and Bookends to create a document and bibliography database respectively.
2. Scan the Mellel document using Bookends database to create a scanned document.
3. Export the document into .rtf format and share it with other MS word users.
4. They email me back the .rtf with comments.
5. I open the rtf using Mellel. No problems viewing and accepting the modification by others.

6. Here comes the problem: The .rtf is not the original Mellel/Bookends scanned .Mellel file. I cannot absorb the edited content seamlessly back into my original unscanned .Mellel file. What it means to me is that I have to copy the edited document sentence by sentence, through copy & paste, back into my original .Mellel file so that I can continue to work in the Mellel/Bookends environment.

My problem is, is there a way to get around this clumsy #6 steps? Am I being stupid in something? Any tips for me?

Thank you so much.

YingLam
rpcameron
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Re: Collaborating using rtf format plus Bookends

Post by rpcameron »

Since the changes are being done to the RTF, I have a semi-convoluted option: RTF is essentially a plain text format. Because of this, you can diff the RTF you submitted to them with the RTF they returned to you. The diff may be a bit awkward because of the formatting codes in it, but it should present you with a smaller document to use as the basis to make your changes.

However, this will only work if they modify the RTF directly, rather than using Word's track changes and comments features. Otherwise, your best option would probably be to open your original document and the received document side-by-side, and manually make your changes that way.
— Robert Cameron
yinglam
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Posts: 15
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Re: Collaborating using rtf format plus Bookends

Post by yinglam »

Thank you Robert. Unfortunately, my friends always use Word's track changes and comments features..... :roll:
rpcameron
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Re: Collaborating using rtf format plus Bookends

Post by rpcameron »

Then you're basically relegated to 2 real options: either you change your workflow, or your collaborators change theirs. Mellel is really quite unsuited to working in a heterogenous environment; it only works well when every aspect of your workflow is in Mellel. (Of course, the same is also true of Word.)
— Robert Cameron
yinglam
Got the auto-title mojo working
Posts: 15
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Re: Collaborating using rtf format plus Bookends

Post by yinglam »

Dear Robert,

Thanks. Thanks for the reply and suggestion. Thanks for help confirming my fear and frustration.....

YingLam
laup
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Re: Collaborating using rtf format plus Bookends

Post by laup »

I can add a bit based on experience today. I sent a colleague my rtf export and he did a significant markup in Word. He was unable to send the result back to me, probably because the email system balked: the file was vey large and included many graphics. I had him save-as to Word and send that back. I opened that in Word and did simple copy and paste into my Mellel document for the vast majority of the changes. I found that to be very quick and easy. I don't see any reason to bother with the rtf. I might just as well have sent my collaborator a Word file in the first place (by exporting to rtf, opening in Word, and saving-as to .doc). The file would have been much smaller and behaved better for him.

In summary, I see no point in asking collaborators to fool around with an rtf file. It's mean and selfish to do so, especially since it doesn't really accomplish anything unless I'm missing something.
Paul
rpcameron
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Re: Collaborating using rtf format plus Bookends

Post by rpcameron »

RTF is actually a Microsoft Word native format. The specs for the RTF format are updated each time Microsoft releases a new version of Word, and every feature that Word supports is actually part of the RTF spec. There should be no need to open the RTF in Word to convert to a Word format, because RTF is a Word format.
— Robert Cameron
laup
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Re: Collaborating using rtf format plus Bookends

Post by laup »

Robert, I am missing your point. To send someone a file to mark up in Word, I normally export to rtf. I then open in the Word application and save-as to Word, which reduces file size by a factor of perhaps 10. I then send that. Is there a step I could skip?
Paul
rpcameron
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Re: Collaborating using rtf format plus Bookends

Post by rpcameron »

laup wrote:Robert, I am missing your point. To send someone a file to mark up in Word, I normally export to rtf. I then open in the Word application and save-as to Word, which reduces file size by a factor of perhaps 10. I then send that. Is there a step I could skip?
Yes, just send the RTF document. If you want to reduce the file size, then you can compress it if you like (ZIP, gzip, bz2, &c.). RTF files compress pretty well because they are really just plain text.

Modern versions of Word use a zipped XML format as their default, just like Mellel does. RTF is the same, just unzipped.

The advantage of RTF over Word's XML format is that Mellel does not understand Word's XML, and therefore comments and changes may not be loaded. (The Word support in Mellel is defined by the version of OS X you are using, not Mellel.) However, when using RTF, every version of Mellel has the same RTF support (including whichever level of comments and changes it supports), regardless of OS X version. Have you noticed that some features of Word documents are supported in OS X 10.10, but not 10.7? That is because Mellel doesn't handle the Word importing, the OS does.
— Robert Cameron
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