Exporting document in WORD Format

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Exporting document in WORD Format

Post by abe-ariel@013.net » Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:13 am

Mellel 5 gives us the long overdue feature of exporting in WORD format.
I have just completed a 200 page Hebrew manuscript that contains 50 pics. The publisher wants it in WORD format. I converted and... trouble.
All pages came out with an upper margin of about 6 cm.
Word's FORMAT > DOCUMENT > MARGINES shows the margin is 2 cm (as is the oriiginal Mellel product), while in fact it is six.
How do I cut the margin of all pages in the Word product from 6 cm to 2 cm in one go?
After doing that I'll be able to look for other formatting problems in the exported document, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
Tks

Amontillado
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Re: Exporting document in WORD Format

Post by Amontillado » Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:41 pm

Is Word including empty headers and footers that are eating into your print area with white space? Just a thought.

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Re: Exporting document in WORD Format

Post by abe-ariel@013.net » Thu Dec 10, 2020 1:37 pm

How/where can I verify that?
Tks
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Re: Exporting document in WORD Format

Post by jannuss » Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:39 pm

I've never seen anything like this, but I think you should make a few basic checks

1. File/Page Setup
make sure all the parameters are correct

2. Preferences/General and Preferences/Document Setup
make sure all the parameters are correct

3. Styles/Edit Page Styles/Page
have you defined several styles or are you doing everything ad hoc?
-- look at each of your defined styles, check the parameters
-- if you are working ad hoc, consider defining some styles and using them instead

4. Page palette
go to one of the pages that has converted incorrectly to WORD and check the parameters in the page palette, particularly the margin settings

Once you've done all this, create a test file with just a few pages from you document and try converting it

Any joy?

Amontillado
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Re: Exporting document in WORD Format

Post by Amontillado » Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:40 pm

I don't use Word (good parenting), but I think the suggestions Jannuss has will reveal the headers/footers situation, if that's the cause.


abe-ariel@013.net wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 1:37 pm
How/where can I verify that?
Tks
=========

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Re: Exporting document in WORD Format

Post by abe-ariel@013.net » Sat Dec 12, 2020 5:55 pm

Hi all
I made several expeiments which I wish to share with you.
First I shall summerize again the situation.
A Mellel document, 209 pp, written in non-Roman Hebrew characters. The document includes 50 pics, all INLINE and placed above captions of 1-4 lines.
The page parameters are A4, all four margines set at 2 cm, Headers (conaining page numbers) set at 1.608 cm. Footers are not ticked. Page numbers at top.
Document is to be exported as WORD. Please note, for what it's worth, that MS WORD does not support Hebrew text and characters.

Exporting whole document in one go produces the following results:
1. In all pages - upper blank margine extends to 30% of page, being approx 10 cm of A4 page.
2. Document is now made of of 284 pp.
3. Many pics floated away from their original position
4. Change in ordinal numbering of footnotes. While in orginal Mellel document I had numbering for each page (starting again at No. 1 onwards in every page), Word is allocating footnotes continious ordinal numbers to whole document.

I then produced a dummy document of six consecutive pp. ex the original Mellel document and exported it to WORD. Results:
1. Normal upper margines in all pages
2. Page numbers moved from top to bottom
3. All pics floated away a little.
4. Change in ordinal numbering of footnotes as above

I trust I made sense and am looking forward for a not-too-complicated advice how to export reasonably the whole 209 pp. document.
Thanks a million.

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Re: Exporting document in WORD Format

Post by jannuss » Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:39 pm

Please, Abe, have you checked all the parameters I mentioned in my previous rep;y?

I'm almost certain that you will find some conflict between the page and document definitions and the page styles in use,

Also, it is always best, especially with a long document, to avoid ad hoc style definitions -- have you done that?

חנוכה שמח

Janet

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Re: Exporting document in WORD Format

Post by abe-ariel@013.net » Sat Dec 12, 2020 8:06 pm

Tks Janet

Will try doing that tomorrow, though it is unclear to a person who knows nothing of Mellel's insides.

What are ad-hoc style definitions?

Tks

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Re: Exporting document in WORD Format

Post by jannuss » Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:31 pm

Aha
I guessed as much -- when I started using Mellel. I also ignored style sets. I defined all my character/paragraph/page parameters "ad hoc" [one-by-one, on the fly]. The difference is that I started with very short documents. By the time I got around to creating more serious stuff, I understood much better what I was doing. You jumped straight in with a long document and now finding the problem is going to be difficult.

So, let's take a deep breath and go back to the beginning.

Every |Mellel document is defined by a series of parameters, most of which are stored as styles [character styles, paragraph styles. etc.] and grouped in style sets. What Mellel users are meant to do is to create their own style sets that reflect how they wish to format their documents. For example, when I create mixed Hebrew/English text, I like to leave extra room for NIKUD, so I've defined a paragraph style with the parameter line spacing = 1.1. For straight English-only documents, I have a different paragraph style with line spacing = 1.

I know, it sounds very complex and cumbersome, but actually it works very well.

Now, I don't expect you to rework your entire 200 page opus, but we do have to find the source of you problem.
So, let's take your six page test file and work on that.

1. click on File/Document setup
you should have Binding Direction defined as "Right to Left" for a Hebrew document

2. click on File/page setup
you probably want Paper size = A4, Orientation = Portrait, and Scale = 100%

3. click on Mellel 5/Preferences/
under General, Measurement Units = centimeters
(also look at Document Setup while you are at it even thought those parameters shouldn't affect our problem)

4. click on Styles/Edit Style sets
select Page.
We are going to create a new style, so hit the + button at the bottom and give the style a name. I'll call mine "Abe."
Now, hit the edit button (the pencil) and start making changes
-- text direction (upper right), orientation (lower right), margins, the header, etc.
-- hit save
-- then, hit save a second rime to apply this new style to your style set

Now, open the palettes, select Page, select styles and double click on the name of your new page style.
[The idea is to replace all your ad hoc page definitions with those in the new style]

OK, Save and export the test document to WORD

??????

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Re: Exporting document in WORD Format

Post by abe-ariel@013.net » Sun Dec 13, 2020 3:09 pm

Firstly thank you Janet so much for your unusual patience and assistance.
Secondly I think I followed your clear instructions but I made a booboo somewhere from number (4) onwards.
In your Point 4, I got Abe in the left box , did all the editing, saved twice, but could not get Abe into the Right box, where I think it should appear .
It tells me that a style set must have at least one style in every category and that Abe will not be displayed in the Style set menu.
In fact it does not show up in the Page palette, where I see only three default ones.
Where am I wrong?
Thanks again.
I wish I could send you some latkes or one of the books I’ve written.
Look me up at
https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%90%D7 ... 7%90%D7%9C
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jannuss
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Re: Exporting document in WORD Format

Post by jannuss » Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:04 pm

I'd forgotten about the one-in-each-category business.

So, just to get started, create a style called "STAM" in each category with a minimal content.
Later you will want to go back and add real styles, but for now we need to focus on the page style which is most likely the cause of the problem.

Also, you need to set and or verify the parameters in my steps 1 through 3

Let me know how it goes.

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Re: Exporting document in WORD Format

Post by abe-ariel@013.net » Sun Dec 13, 2020 8:01 pm

What do you mean by " in each category"?
How do I do that?

Tks

jannuss
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Re: Exporting document in WORD Format

Post by jannuss » Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:28 am

Simple

in Styles/Edit Style sets
-- Click on Paragraph, click the + button and give the new style a name say "STAM," click the pencil to edit it, make a change for example, set alignment to center), click on save
-- continue the process for List, Section, Note, index, Table
-- and finally, Page (the "Abe" style we talked about)
remember to save each time
Now save the entire style set (I don't remember if you have to give it a name)

A bit annoying, but it takes only a few minutes

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Re: Exporting document in WORD Format

Post by abe-ariel@013.net » Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:15 pm

Tks Janet
Sorry I am not there.
Style >Edit Style Sets opens for me two panels
I Reset the Styles on the RHS (Right Hand Side) panel.
I Saved as rquired but Abe does not show up on the PAGE Palette.
Only the three default titles appear

I then tried to enter a title on the Left Hand Side (LHS) panel. Named it Ariel and made the styles on RHS connect to it.
Still nothing changed on the Page palette
What am I missing?
Can we talk?

Tks

jannuss
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Re: Exporting document in WORD Format

Post by jannuss » Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:36 pm

Yes, this is getting silly: involving the entire Forum in the process

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