Tables.. Arrgggg

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pat308
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Tables.. Arrgggg

Post by pat308 »

I have pages that have a table on them. Each table is 2 rows, 2 columns. The top row has the cells merged.. and second row uses both columns. Essentially I am created a ruled sheet with a margin. Anybody familiar with the cornell note-taking method will understand.

Well the second single table row often goes beyond the end of the "page" Usually I catch it in time and manage to add a second row and have that flow to the start of the next page. However in some notes I have just been working on I forgot and the single row goes off the end of the page. Well Mellel seems to hate this idea.. and now I have lost all that work.. Essentially there is no way to see the information that is off the end of page. There is no way to select the bottom of the row and shrink it.. so I can see the data.. I can't copy it. When I try and select the table row to shrink it Mellel seems to go into some funky selection state..

I would consider this a bug.. And right now a really painful bug.. I would strongly suggest that software makers stop trying to guess how people will use their products.. Tables with-in tables are perfectly sensible functionality. As is having a single table row extend for 300 hundred pages.

I would love a solution to my problem.. but I suspect the best I can hope for is this opportunity to whine about it and hope that somebody believes this is a big enough problem to want to fix it.

Mellel is strong product. Good for the Mac.
jannuss
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Re: Tables.. Arrgggg

Post by jannuss »

pat308 wrote:I have pages that have a table on them. Each table is 2 rows, 2 columns. The top row has the cells merged.. and second row uses both columns. Essentially I am created a ruled sheet with a margin. Anybody familiar with the cornell note-taking method will understand.
Would Columns [Sections] be a solution for you?

Janet
rpcameron
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Re: Tables.. Arrgggg

Post by rpcameron »

jannuss wrote:
pat308 wrote:I have pages that have a table on them. Each table is 2 rows, 2 columns. The top row has the cells merged.. and second row uses both columns. Essentially I am created a ruled sheet with a margin. Anybody familiar with the cornell note-taking method will understand.
Would Columns [Sections] be a solution for you?
If I understand the OP's uses, he's looking for something similar to what you would use with a running translation, and would benefit from the oft-requested feature of having paragraph starts synced across columns.

A workaround that I can think of is the select all the text in the table's cell (using "Select All" or Cmd + A), then copy and paste it either into a new document, or into the table cell on the new page, and delete the text that appeared on the first page. Sure it's a bit of a kludge, but until we have running columns (such as those needed for translations), I think that's the best we're going to get.

(Running columns like this may be implemented in the future, probably alongside margin notes, since the code would probably be pretty similar. Just a thought, as I have no real idea when it may happen.)
— Robert Cameron
Mart°n
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Re: Tables.. Arrgggg

Post by Mart°n »

pat308 wrote:There is no way to select the bottom of the row and shrink it.. so I can see the data.. I can't copy it. When I try and select the table row to shrink it Mellel seems to go into some funky selection state..

I would love a solution to my problem.. but I suspect the best I can hope for is this opportunity to whine about it and hope that somebody believes this is a big enough problem to want to fix it.
There are several solutions to get back all the text you’ve wrote:

1. Select the text inside the table cell from the beginning and move down with your mouse (click and move) until you’ve reached the next but one (or some more)page. The whole text of the table cell would be selected, even if you couldn’t see it. Then copy the text (via Command + C) and paste it right after your table.

2. Select as much text you could see inside the cell and change the font size to a very small one (e.g. 6 point). The selected text will shrink and the hidden one will be revealed. If there’s still some hidden text, select the revealed and assign the small size again. Repeat this until you could see every single letter.

3. Export your document as a RTF file (File › Export › RTF…) and open the exported document with TextEdit for example. You should to see all the text in TextEdit now.
Ori Redler
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Re: Tables.. Arrgggg

Post by Ori Redler »

pat308 wrote:I have pages that have a table on them. Each table is 2 rows, 2 columns. The top row has the cells merged.. and second row uses both columns. Essentially I am created a ruled sheet with a margin. Anybody familiar with the cornell note-taking method will understand.

Well the second single table row often goes beyond the end of the "page" Usually I catch it in time and manage to add a second row and have that flow to the start of the next page. However in some notes I have just been working on I forgot and the single row goes off the end of the page. Well Mellel seems to hate this idea.. and now I have lost all that work.. Essentially there is no way to see the information that is off the end of page. There is no way to select the bottom of the row and shrink it.. so I can see the data.. I can't copy it. When I try and select the table row to shrink it Mellel seems to go into some funky selection state..

I would consider this a bug.. And right now a really painful bug.. I would strongly suggest that software makers stop trying to guess how people will use their products.. Tables with-in tables are perfectly sensible functionality. As is having a single table row extend for 300 hundred pages.

I would love a solution to my problem.. but I suspect the best I can hope for is this opportunity to whine about it and hope that somebody believes this is a big enough problem to want to fix it.

Mellel is strong product. Good for the Mac.
I will not reiterate the good suggestions below, but just point out that the fact that we did not get to fixing the way tables work in Mellel doesn't mean we don't think they suck...
Ori Redler from RedleX
rpcameron
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Re: Tables.. Arrgggg

Post by rpcameron »

Ori Redler wrote:I will not reiterate the good suggestions below, but just point out that the fact that we did not get to fixing the way tables work in Mellel doesn't mean we don't think they suck...
Comments like this nearly make me chortle, and just reiterate part of why I enjoy using Mellel ... a community with a personality.

(BTW, I'm in accord with Ori's assessment of Mellel's tables ... if I don't need them readily editable, I create them in Pages and export to PDF, then place in Mellel ... I don't like working with Pages's tables, but they're better than Mellel's. But running columns, marginalia and full gloss support would be very nice ...)
— Robert Cameron
jannuss
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Re: Tables.. Arrgggg

Post by jannuss »

rpcameron wrote:(BTW, I'm in accord with Ori's assessment of Mellel's tables ... if I don't need them readily editable, I create them in Pages and export to PDF, then place in Mellel
Except that Pages is not internationalized and can't process right-to-left languages.

Janet
pat308
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Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:26 pm

Thanks

Post by pat308 »

Thanks for the suggestions. I can get my work back by selecting the table cell and in my frustration yesterday I had not considered that. That is what community is about.

I'll make one editorial comment/clarification.. I don't think tables suck in Mellel. I am not sure if Ori's comment was a counter to an impression I gave. My opinion is that Mellel is nicer than any alternative. But there are things I would still like to do.

In the end for note taking I have gone back to Notebook from Circus Ponies because it implements primitive form of the Cornell Note Taking style in its Cornell Page. If only I could marry the two of you.
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