Confused about styles

dmw2 · Post by **dmw2** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:50 pm

If I make changes to a style, shouldn't everything in a document using that style automatically reflect that change?

I have a bunch of level-1 auto-titles. By default they are using the 'header' paragraph style, which uses the 'header' character style. I changed the 'header' character style to use a different font, but nothing that is using that style has changed. Why not, and how do I make it change?

Hopefully I'm just missing something basic here.

dmw2 · Post by **dmw2** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:20 pm

Ok, I figured out the answer myself. There is more than one thing here that makes this non-obvious to the novice.

First, you can't change the character style of an auto-title from the character style palette, although it both looks like you should, and gives you visual feedback that the change has been made when it hasn't. To the new user who hasn't figured out auto-titles yet, this is very misleading.

Second, related to the first: if I click on an auto-title in the editor window, I can see both the paragraph style and character style palettes update (placing the checkmark on styles) as if they are showing me the correct styles for that auto-title. This is a false indication, leading me to believe that if I make changes to the current character style I will see those changes reflected on the screen. No dice, and no indication that what I'm trying to do is not possible. Not only is it a false indication, but it's not even correct! For example, the default for a level-1 auto-title is the 'header' paragraph style with the 'title' character style. But on clicking on the already-inserted auto-title, the palettes indicate 'header' paragraph style and 'header' character style. This made me think that I needed to change the 'header' character style to update this auto-title, when, in fact, I needed to change the 'title' auto-style.

Hopefully my descriptions are clear. I find it difficult to describe theses things.

Since it is not possible to change the styles for an auto-title without going directly to the auto-title editor, maybe that ability should be disabled from the palettes when the cursor is within an auto-title, and some indication given as to where one would go to make the change.

rpcameron · Post by **rpcameron** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:47 am

The reason that Auto–Titles' styles have to edited and changed from the Auto–Title editor dialogue is because each element of the Auto–Title can have a different character style. Perhaps future revisions will make a character style to a selected Auto–Title propogate through all elements of the Auto–Title.

(Of course, my assessment may be wrong. However, it does seem like the logical reason that Auto–Title style changes must be made from the Auto–Title editor dialogue. However, making a change to the character style of one set up to be used for Auto–Titles does correctly propogate through Auto–Titles. Just make sure you edit the style, and not make the changes through the palettes.)

dmw · Post by **dmw** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:37 am

The problem is not the fact that the auto-titles' styles must be changed from the auto-title editor. I think it's a powerful tool well-suited to its purpose. The problem as I see it is that the character and paragraph style palettes give a false impression that they have something to do with this process. They do, indirectly, but they give every indication of being the correct interface for changing the character and paragraph styles for a selected auto-title--which is false.

So, to distill my point, the UI in this case is misleading. And I believe, with some small modifications, it could be substantially clarified.

First, disable the changing of styles for an auto-title. The palettes let you make a change, but the change has no real effect, thus only serving to confuse.

Second, since the style currently displayed in the palette may not actually be the one used by the currently selected auto-title, either remove all checks from the style palettes, or check all the styles for all the elements of that auto-title. (At least that way I would have some indication of which style I should look at if I wanted to change a font or something. As it stands right now, I'm mislead into thinking that the character style for a level 1 auto-title is 'header' when it's really 'title'.)

These are just my suggestions; a much more elegant solution to this problem may exist. I hope some thought will go into this for a future revision, as this usability issue mars an otherwise excellent application.

nicka · Post by **nicka** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 11:46 am

First, you can't change the character style of an auto-title from the character style palette, although it both looks like you should, and gives you visual feedback that the change has been made when it hasn't. To the new user who hasn't figured out auto-titles yet, this is very misleading

Agreed. The misleading feedback is effectively a bug, in my opinion.

I suspect that changes to the auto-title system are coming in one of the next few updates and hope this is fixed then.

rpcameron · Post by **rpcameron** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:36 pm

I must disagree with the 2 previous posters. I don't feel that it's a bug in any way, and I don't feel that it's a problem with the UI. If you use styles, the proper way to manage them is frrom the edit style dialogue, either from the appropriate menu (Character, Paragraph, &c.) or from the edit style sets dialogue. The palettes are used for ad hoc changes, and I don't feel there's anything that implies the changes made in the palettes are "sticky" and will modify already set styles.

The issue of styles v. ad hoc changes has already been discussed at length, and this is just a continuation of that, IMHO.

nicka · Post by **nicka** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 11:44 pm

I agree that the proper way to manage styles is from the relevant dialogue or menu. The thing I said is effectively a bug (in my opinion) is the way that you can seem to change the style of an auto-title in that the details in the palette change while the text appearance remains the same. I don't see any reason for this and it must be confusing for at least some users.

rpcameron · Post by **rpcameron** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 11:54 pm

nicka wrote:I agree that the proper way to manage styles is from the relevant dialogue or menu. The thing I said is effectively a bug (in my opinion) is the way that you can seem to change the style of an auto-title in that the details in the palette change while the text appearance remains the same. I don't see any reason for this and it must be confusing for at least some users.

Ah, thanks for the clarification. I've never encountered that situation, but from what you've just described, I would categorize this as a bug. Perhaps the next minor version update will include a fix for this.