Nisus Writer Pro ... call for comments

[Guern Blanston]

I would prefer the folks a Mellel to do their own announcing. I did not see anything new but Eyal spoke of some upcoming improvements with the integration of bibliographic software. Like I said though.... I don't want to mess up the details and will let them make announcements. And like I said in the previous post.... their innovations are elegant and always move to more simple (not simplistic) ways of working.

[jzents]

NW has some features like macros that I find indispensable for grading papers--I use macros to insert canned comments.

Could you give us some information or links about NWE's macro system? I googled around and saw reviews that said NWE's macro system was a step backward from the old NW macros, but couldn't find a description of what they are capable of and limited to in NWE today. In keeping with the thread, what if any new macro features will NWP have?

This might help us (a) suggest alternatives for your needs (b) propose feature requests for future versions of Mellel.

Let me explain and clarify a bit. In the current version you can write macros in in either Pearl, or in native Nisus macro language. I have only used the Pearl macros to create a macro that would insert some text. I have used the menu macros to change the characterization and attributes of text that is about to be inserted.

In the new version, they have consolidated it down to a single Nisus macro language (though it is backwards compatible with the old Pearl macros). This language enables you to insert text, with or without attributes, and call items from the menus. A big advantage for me, is that now I can insert text with attributes, without having to already have a style for those attributes existing in the document. Previously in order to insert text with attributes, I would create the styling needed in the document, and then use the macro to called both the style and then a macro that would insert the text. Thus, I would have to copy my attributes styles into a document that was editing from a student in order to put my corrections in to the document. Now I can just from the macros in any document that I am editing and insert my comments with the proper attributes.

Let me also comment on a post by Ori just below the one that I am replying to right now. In the current version of Nisus you have very little control over the way a footnote is displayed. You do not have control over the way the number is displayed in the note independently of the way the number is displayed in the text. If you have superscript numbers in your text, you will have a superscripted note number in the footnote itself. I often wish to create a document were the number in the note is at the same baseline with the text, though the number in the text of the body of the document is itself superscripted. In the new version of Nisus you now have independent styles for the number for the note in the text, the number for the note in the footnote itself, and the footnote text. This removes one of my biggest complaints with Nisus, and one of the reasons why I used Mellel for my academic writing. Right now it seems to me to come down to this: you have crossed referencing and TOC in Nisus, but you have excellent integration with a superb of bibliographical tool in Mellel. I still find myself unable to use one to the exclusion of the other. Cheers!

[TadDavis]

One feature that would determine my interest would be outlining. I didn't see this mentioned in the NW Pro announcement. To me, being able to see a condensed view of the document structure -- and being able to move sections around in that view -- is essential. I would be curious to see how NW Pro generates a table of contents. Unless it includes an outlining feature that represents a significant advance over Mellel's, I'm not sure I'd be tempted.

[ptram]

One feature that would determine my interest would be outlining. I didn't see this mentioned in the NW Pro announcement.

The first screenshot in the link cited at the beginning of this thread shows an outline pane on the left. Clearly "inspired" to Mellel's one...
Paolo

[TadDavis]

The first screenshot in the link cited at the beginning of this thread shows an outline pane on the left.

So it does. That's what I get for not double-clicking the graphic till it was big enough for me to actually see.

Not to be peevish, but I hope the final version of the outline pane reflects the actual structure of document headings better than the graphic.

[Ori Redler]

Just to sum up things, as this is a Mellel forum and not a stage to debate the merits or problems of Nisus Writer, Let's wish that both products become so incredibly great that the only thing to discuss would be if one product is the greatest and the other one is the greatest + 0.0001 percent of greatness, or the other way around.

[Reiner]

now that the public beta of Nisus Writer Pro is here, I just hope that Mellel's integration of indexing and cross-referencing is great. Nisus Writer Pro's is definitally not.

[donb]

Back in pre-OSX days I used to use Nisus for virtually all my work. But as the years went by, Nisus became more and more unstable, until I had to give up and move to FrameMaker.

I had a good look at Nisus Writer Pro a few days ago. What dismayed me was its total lack of some features that I use all the time.

For instance, Nisus Writer Pro lacks a soft hyphen. I once read that OS X does not permit a soft hyphen. But Mellel has it, and it works very well. Preparing text for printing requires the use of soft hyphens...

For that matter, most of the items in Mellel's Insert > Special characers are missing in Nisus Writer Pro, and since they were mostly missing in the old Classic Nisus, I doubt they will ever be in Nisus Writer Pro. For formatting, I find that Mellel's variety of types of a blank space are extremely useful; Mellel's non-breaking hyphen and non-breaking space are also a godsend for formatting.

Have you noticed that Nisus Writer Pro makes no provision for precise line spacing? You cannot define line spacing in points, and so a 13.25 point line spacing is impossible.

Nisus Writer Pro says it uses "Apple's Hyphenation Dictionary" (I did not know there was one). There is no provision for overriding individual items once hyphenation is turned on.

I could go on and on. Nisus Writer Pro will probably turn out to be a very nice word processor -- although not up to the standard of the classic Claris Works (OS X's AppleWorks is a far cry from the quality of classic Claris Works).

I lament this, because a good competitor for Mellel would probably be a good thing. But although Nisus Writer Pro has copied many of Mellel's most obvious features (its drawer is an obvious imitation of Mellel's palettes), the thought of providing new solutions for things word processors have never been able to do well, seems not to have entered its mind.

By the way, have you noticed that while Nisus Writer Pro does allow changing the width of one column, the other column(s) on the page are automatically calculated? From my attempts with it, apparently once you change the width of a column, no amount of tweaking the gutter and also changing the width of the other column(s) will let you manage your column sizes the way you might want.

Don Broadribb

[Timotheus]

My biggest problem with the beta-version of Nisus Pro is that it's slow, very slow with long documents. Some time ago, the guys of Nisus candidly admitted on their forum, that speed was not exactly the most brilliant quality of NWE. Unfortunately now the same must be said of the Pro version, or at least of its present beta.

And I must confess that when I saw the Pro version contained both Table of Contents and Indexing and Bookmarks / Crossreferences and Document navigation and a host of other new 'major' features, the first thing I thought was: "How on earth is this possible? How do they manage to do this?"

[kga1978]

Well one thing this Nisus thing is doing very well compared to Mellel is tables.... Much much quicker and you can use real navigation to go to different rows, etc.

I have noticed that table-handling is getting extremely slow in Mellel (with big tables - say 8x20), but in Word or Nisus they work like a breeze..

I do a lot of tables, so hopefully Mellel will get a better integration for them soon...

[macsailor]

Well one thing this Nisus thing is doing very well compared to Mellel is tables.... Much much quicker and you can use real navigation to go to different rows, etc.

I have noticed that table-handling is getting extremely slow in Mellel (with big tables - say 8x20), but in Word or Nisus they work like a breeze..

I do a lot of tables, so hopefully Mellel will get a better integration for them soon...

I have to agree on this one. The way NWE and NWP handle tables, are much more intuitive than Mellel. But still Mellel is handling tables quite well, but as far as I'm concerned, Nisus does it better.

[Timotheus]

But the Redlers have already admitted more than once that tables in Mellel need to be improved. So they are fully aware of this defeciency.

[cgc]

...And I must confess that when I saw the Pro version contained both Table of Contents and Indexing and Bookmarks / Crossreferences and Document navigation and a host of other new 'major' features, the first thing I thought was: "How on earth is this possible? How do they manage to do this?"

Could it be because the Nisus programmers don't have to worry about working on the underlying text engine. Ironic that the very thing that has been called a "weakness" of NWE and NWP has allowed their programmers to concentrate on adding features. Users can accept the limitations (they are not limitations for me, but for others they are), or look elsewhere.

Just an observation, not a flame, both programs are great.

[ptram]

Users can accept the limitations (they are not limitations for me, but for others they are)

The beauty of text representation on screen and on paper is one of the main strength of Mellel. I wouldn't ovelook at it, since dealing with beauty has always been part of our job as writers.

Philosophy apart -- yes, both programs are very competent tools for writing, and it is nice to see some competition between them. I only would like the creators of NWP don't try to copy features from Mellel as they are. Leave its own personality to each one.

Paolo

[pds1602]

Cross references is one feature that is “known” to arrive in the next release. Maybe some other kind of link handling will be included too. There were also discussions about real OpenType small caps (in opposite to all small caps) and auto-titles with multiple font variations inside the title element but I don’t know if those features will be included with the next release or sometimes later.
Guy has mentioned some interface improvements but I also don’t know if those will find their way into the upcoming release.

They have been saying that for 3 years so don't hold your breath.