Feature request: Auto-title dialog as a sheet

Feature requests, and in-depth discussions of features and the way Mellel works

Moderators: redlers, Eyal Redler, Ori Redler

Post Reply

Would you like to change the current auto-title dialog behaviour?

Yes, a sheet would be fine.
1
7%
Yes, I’d like it to remember its position.
1
7%
Simply yes, I do not care about the details.
10
71%
No, it works fine for me.
2
14%
 
Total votes: 14

zoul
Knows everything, can prove it
Posts: 120
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:48 pm
Location: Boskovice, Czech Republic
Contact:

Feature request: Auto-title dialog as a sheet

Post by zoul » Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:07 am

I use Mellel for translating, so that I have the upper half of the screen filled with the source text and the lower half of the screen filled with Mellel. Right now the auto-title insertion dialog always pops up in the middle of the screen and always covers the source text. I would like to do something about it – the dialog should either remember its position (it doesn’t do now) or pop-up as a sheet.

Of course, the real deal would be in-place auto-title editing :)

joewiz
Knows everything, can prove it
Posts: 199
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 9:42 pm

Re: Feature request: Auto-title dialog as a sheet

Post by joewiz » Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:01 pm

zoul wrote:Of course, the real deal would be in-place auto-title editing :)
I'd like to be able to avoid 'modal dialogs' like this dialog for adding new auto-titles too, in favor of in-line editing... but picture how it would work. You'd select the command to Add New Auto-Title, and you could type the Auto-Title, but then what? How would you tell the Auto-Title to end? In other words, how would you indicate that you want to go back to the regular, non-Auto Title text editing mode?

zoul
Knows everything, can prove it
Posts: 120
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:48 pm
Location: Boskovice, Czech Republic
Contact:

Post by zoul » Wed Mar 07, 2007 5:02 pm

Right, I came to the same conclusion. I thought it could look a bit like the “invisible” text areas in iApps, for example the fields in the iCal drawer. I’d select the command for a new autotitle and an empty shadowed box would appear with the cursor inside. Jumping out of the frame is a question, but maybe a simple Return will do? (Or something that simple.) The “shadow” would hide when I leave the box, but would appear when I click on the text or maybe even when I roll the mouse over.

digimarkus
Already downloaded the guide
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 6:34 am

Post by digimarkus » Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:56 pm

It's not an option in the poll, but my preference would be an "in-line editing" solution for inserting and editing auto-titles.

- Mark

joewiz
Knows everything, can prove it
Posts: 199
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 9:42 pm

Post by joewiz » Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:05 pm

joewiz wrote:As far as getting out of the auto-title entering area, Return would probably work, given that auto-titles aren't designed to be multi-line things (right?), but I think the orthodox key for confirming entry in a field in OS X is technically the Enter key.
Just following up on the question of editing existing auto-titles - I watched the new video tutorial about auto-titles and learned something new: You can edit an auto-title in-line by clicking on it once, then hitting return to begin editing (at which point the full text of the auto-title is selected, and can either type over the old text or use the arrow keys or mouse to move the cursor), then hitting return to confirm changes.

Before this, I only knew about three ways to edit an auto-title: (1) double-click to bring up an editing dialog, (2) click twice but not so fast as to constitute a double-click, i.e. click once, then click again, to edit-in line (3) triple-click to edit in-line. And for (2) and (3) I didn't know that hitting return would confirm changes.

With these options for in-line editing of existing auto-titles, it looks like the modal dialog is becoming less and less necessary. The modal dialog is still the only way to add a new auto-title... why?

Here's what I think should happen:

(a) By default, all creation and editing of auto-titles should happen in-line; modal dialogs should be deprecated, only accessible through triple-click or click-return. Double-click should start in-line editing.

(b) The in-line interface should be overhauled to match that of iCal's sidebar or Address Book entries: editing activates a highlighted border around the auto-title being edited -- without this border it's not clear that auto-titles are different.

(c) Edits can be confirmed with return or clicking outside. Once confirmed, the border disappears, and the auto-title returns to the normal gray-highlighted state.


EDIT: Oh no, I edited over my first post... I meant to hit 'reply' instead of 'quote'... Oh well, I don't think there's any way to undo that. The thrust of my original post was support for this idea of in-line adding and editing of auto-titles.
Last edited by joewiz on Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

aechallu
Knows everything, can prove it
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 6:38 pm
Location: Bowling Green, OH

Post by aechallu » Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:06 pm

In-line editing, that'd be my vote if it were an option.

And what about making the autotitle behave like email addresses in Mail.app? You hover on it, the title transform into the blue rounded thing with the little right arrow on the right. If you press the arrow you can choose to edit the autotitle or change its level. (Double clicking however would still allow editing the autotitle).

joewiz
Knows everything, can prove it
Posts: 199
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 9:42 pm

Post by joewiz » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:41 pm

aechallu wrote:In-line editing, that'd be my vote if it were an option.

And what about making the autotitle behave like email addresses in Mail.app? You hover on it, the title transform into the blue rounded thing with the little right arrow on the right. If you press the arrow you can choose to edit the autotitle or change its level. (Double clicking however would still allow editing the autotitle).
I accidentally posted my follow-up to this and other suggestions by editing my previous post, instead of hitting 'reply to'.

This Mail.app idea is interesting. I think this hover-click-menu interface would work well for text that *cannot* be edited but can only be acted on. In an e-mail, you can't/shouldn't edit the e-mail address; you can only add it to your address book, copy it, or perform a search with it. Auto-titles, in contrast, are meant to be editable, but crucially are 'indivisible objects'. They're much more like fields in Address Book.

The challenge for the interface designer is how to distinguish these indivisible auto-title objects from regular text. For much of the history of Mellel auto-titles, this has been done with the modal editing dialog. Most likely, auto-titles shouldn't be edited as often (and thus as seamlessly) as regular text. But I think the modal dialog gets in the way too much; in-line editing, enhanced by a highlighted border around the auto-title, and activated by double-click, would do the trick, I think.

zoul
Knows everything, can prove it
Posts: 120
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:48 pm
Location: Boskovice, Czech Republic
Contact:

Post by zoul » Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:47 am

joewiz wrote:(…) in-line editing, enhanced by a highlighted border around the auto-title, and activated by double-click, would do the trick, I think.
I would even go as far as leaving out the double click, I hate to use the mouse when writing. I wish that the autotitles were simply a part of the text and I wish I could simply enter the autotitle editing mode just like I edit any other line of text, for example by pressing an up arrow when below the title. If the autotitle gets surrounded by a rectangle and a shadow to make it appear as a standalone text field (à la the mentioned iCal) each time the cursor is inside, I do not think anybody gets confused. Autotitles are simply too special now, I wish they would be only as special as absolutely needed.

joewiz
Knows everything, can prove it
Posts: 199
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 9:42 pm

Post by joewiz » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:34 pm

zoul wrote:I would even go as far as leaving out the double click, I hate to use the mouse when writing.
At least this part of your request is already available. When the cursor is next to an auto-title, you can edit it without the mouse: 1. Select the auto-title using shift+cursor key. 2. Hit return.

Danoz
Got the auto-title mojo working
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:19 am

Post by Danoz » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:00 am

aechallu wrote:And what about making the autotitle behave like email addresses in Mail.app? You hover on it, the title transform into the blue rounded thing with the little right arrow on the right. If you press the arrow you can choose to edit the autotitle or change its level.
I also thought of something like this idea for variables that were inserted into a document. Your Mail.app -like implementation sounds like a great idea.

I could imagine you could then easily switch from variable #4 to variable #5, if you needed to. And you could easily access the variable definition area from within the text document as well.

Nick

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests