Non-unicode characters

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ymeroz
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Non-unicode characters

Post by ymeroz »

Is Mellel expected to support non-Unicode encoded characters? Specifically, I need to use some non-standard diacritics in Charis Pro. So far I have resorted to using TextEdit.
jannuss
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Re: Non-unicode characters

Post by jannuss »

Unicode has an extraordinarily long list of characters -- are you sure yours are not hidden somewhere on the list?

Which symbols, what do they look like?

Janet
rpcameron
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Re: Non-unicode characters

Post by rpcameron »

Which characters in particular are you using? Charis SIL, released 16 May 2008, is Unicode 5.1 compliant, and therefore should not present any problem. If you are referring to characters that are placed in the private use area (PUA) of the font, those can separately be entered using the Character Palette. They are valid Unicode characters; they are not specified by the Unicode specification, but accessible to any application that can display Unicode.
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ymeroz
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Re: Non-unicode characters

Post by ymeroz »

OK, I looked at things closer (using FontExplorer X).

The character I want is a glyph variant (glyph ID 1923), but I don't know what it is a variant of (must be in some OpenType table), or how to access it in Mellel.
jannuss
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Re: Non-unicode characters

Post by jannuss »

unicode character 1923 is "Limbu vowel sign ee" which looks something like a "9"

My guess is that this isn't what you are looking for.

A little more information might help
-- the name of the character you need
-- the language/special situation it is used in
-- a picture of the character itself.

Janet
ymeroz
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Re: Non-unicode characters

Post by ymeroz »

It's a combining glyph, used in some older orthographies to indicate a trill:
Image

combined like this:
Image

1923 is the glyph number (decimal, I believe), not the Unicode point (there isn't one).
I am using Charis 4.104 (Mac), OS X 10.4.11.
jannuss
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Re: Non-unicode characters

Post by jannuss »

OK, I found several things that might be of some help:

first, in the IPA section of the unicode table there are three trills (none of which look like the symbol you sent)
-- 027C, apico-alveolar trill
-- 0280, voiced uvular trill
-- 0299, bilabial trill

second, here and there in the table are symbols that are similar to what you sent
-- 219C, leftware overwave
-- 219D, rightware overwave
-- 21A0, left right wave arrow

finally, you say you used textEdit to get the needed symbol -- how? I don't see any options in TextEdit for entering non-standard symbols.

Janet
rpcameron
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Re: Non-unicode characters

Post by rpcameron »

If you character you are looking for is indeed a "glyph variant", then you are unfortunately out of luck with Mellel. Mellel does not support OpenType glyph alternates/variants. As far as I'm aware, the only programs on OS X that support OpenType glyph alternates are Adobe's programs (InDesign, Photoshop, &c.).

However, you mention that it is a combining glyph. Does it only combine with certain characters? Does it combine differently with others? If it is a combining character (much like combining diacritics), you might be safe, and the proper way to use this can still be found.

(As an aside, in the example you posted, an upright "r" in the IPA is a trilled alveolar lateral. The un-trilled version is a turned "r". I'm assuming for your work you need the version indicated in the older orthographies. Is that correct?)
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ymeroz
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Re: Non-unicode characters

Post by ymeroz »

rpcameron: Yes, I am trying to reproduce text from an older publication, using this obsolete orthography (Wilhelm Schmidt's Anthropos alphabet, see Anthropos v. 2 (1907) if you are really curious.) As I recall, their r with the wiggle I am talking about corresponds to the usual IPA r. Without the wiggle it is something like a tap (Unicode's latin small letter r with fishhook). I haven't tried combining it with anything else.

TextEdit supports OT glyph alternates (through the typography menu in the font palette).

Janet: I believe I copied and pasted the symbol from a document in another program into TextEdit. I'd have to experiment to get it done again. The same trick didn't work with Mellel though. The other symbols you mention don't look right and have the wrong baseline.

What it comes down to, I guess, is a feature request — I'd like Mellel to allow this character and others like it to be entered, or at least pasted in from other apps, along with general support for OT alternates.
jannuss
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Re: Non-unicode characters

Post by jannuss »

If you don't have too many instances of this trilled r character, I can offer a clumsy, but useable workaround:

-- type this character into TextEdit with a large font size
-- using screen capture [cmd-shirt-4], create a pic file of the character
-- insert the pic file into the text wherever you need the r-trill and resize as needed.

Janet
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The wizard in the sky

Post by Fueesor635 »

Thanks! Bump!

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Dear husband:
I think in a certain, shall we? Yes, definitely, I have felt it to heaven! Husband ah, you want to get married and I really touched Oh well! Originally thought you were just like me and do not spend my life thinking! Her husband, thank you for your love!
With you ah, the world really is the happiest thing! Every morning you will wake up call Ma hand, the West, you know? Her husband, this is the most fresh in the memory of the most moving moment, the home of these days I can not sleep, not your arm when you do not embrace a pillow when Harbor; but I do not regret it, I do not want to see you, I was The disease is not suffering like the human form, I believe for you, I will not let you see the suffering of their own side! Her husband, forgive me, after only laugh in heaven listening to you!

Ah husband a year ago, how much I would like to set the time frame, how have you always want to always bear in mind at the bottom of my heart, but how do you find just could not, I do not know how to do so in order to feel comfortable, I know you I hear the voices of laughter, in fact, I like it or own them laugh, so laugh every day, so you will always remember me, is not a good selfish? I am afraid that after I left you my all into a dust-laden Lian Peng not to touch the corner, I fear, I fear there will be cold, so let your love for me never forget! Every day as I came on the last day, so enough, you have this life, enough!
Last Bang Nimai shoes and socks and clothes, you have a year left in my day to put on a good look at me? Ten sets, that is 10 years, 10 years, you can only ten days time I would like to, in particular the day, you can not be allowed and I think I do not want to, you know I like purple roses, to remember To find Oh, my husband but I am confident of it! Recall that a year is the day to wear, other times not to touch those clothes, if you have forgotten, then you are old, after seeing those clothes, maybe I can think of the requirements of this! West, after you marry a wife, remember to bring that day when I can, but do not tell her who I am, a woman will not mind, said. . . Uh. . . I say, is your childhood, okay? I am envious of those people who grew up in Taipei Story Oh! After you marry a wife, that she is "Our wife," Would you like us to the wife Hao E, as for me, because I looked at it in the sky; though I would cry jealous, but I do not even willing to hurt a girl ; My next life you owe my life, okay? My next life I will be a good good health and healthy baby, I will be forced to put the wrapped around your whole life, until old!

Her husband, I do not want to tell you I love you of this fact, you are afraid to cry! I have seen you cry once, I was headstrong and you have to break; but now you must also crying, right? Not just crying their eyes, hearts are tears! Husband ah, do not let heart stopped in the cell that Qichu sorrow of the sorrowful moment, a smile in the face of life, help me laugh End this life, will you?

From now on, not sad not depressed; I would like to use as long as 10 years in the ten days; after 10 years of my life from a completely clear, I am selfish, but I fear my selfishness I hate you; so I rely on you 10 years, 10 years on, okay? 10 years, we really forget each other, and look forward to the next life!

In carrying out the agreement has been stupid kids

Teardrop wet letterheads, men cried! Gradually the dark days, black, light headlamp came out of the window, finishing a good mood men; "his wife, I remember you 10 years, you would like to ten days, you have to survive a lifetime!"

Gently, into the sky Ni-nan ........
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