Feature request: Move search dialog out of the way

Feature requests, and in-depth discussions of features and the way Mellel works

Moderators: Eyal Redler, redlers, Ori Redler

Would you like a moving search&replace dialog?

No, I can always move it by hand if I need to.
3
8%
Yes, eventually.
21
54%
Yes, as soon as possible.
11
28%
I have a better idea (go and post!).
4
10%
 
Total votes: 39

zoul
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Feature request: Move search dialog out of the way

Post by zoul »

The search&replace dialog almost always hides the found text for me. I would like a preferences option for “Smart search dialog placement” that would move the search dialog out of the way each time a new match is found. I think one of the developers already said in the forum that this is difficult to do, but I would like it to be done anyway.

I do not insist on moving the window – if there is a better solution (like making the window transparent a bit or just anything that works), it’s alright with me.
Timotheus
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Post by Timotheus »

In my opinion, the lower half of the search & replace window should be made collapsible. I very often search something just in order to find, not in order to replace; and I think they are many of us.

That should solve in certain cases at least part of your problem, zoul!
joewiz
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Post by joewiz »

I like the idea of a collapsible find & replace more than the idea of a hopping or leaping find & replace. But here's a 3rd alternative:

What if, instead of a separate find & replace window, we had something like the Firefox find bar that rises from the bottom of the window. It can never cover the text. If you don't use Firefox, then the best analogy is Mellel's outlining pane: it becomes part of the window surrounding the text. Another Mac OS X precedent: iTunes' Browse pane that lowers from the top of the iTunes library window.

Obviously F&R in Mellel and especially 2.1 is more complex than Firefox's Find. So here's my proposal:

1. F&R rises from the bottom of the window. UI elements are tightened so they fit in a Mellel window at the typical screen size.

2. F&R has a reduced and an expanded mode. In reduced mode, you only see the F&R fields and Find/Replace buttons, arranged horizontally for maximum space savings. In expanded mode, you see all elements of the current window. Just as the width of the Outline pane can be expanded or contracted, this F&R window could be made taller or shorter to 'get out of the way.'
zoul
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Post by zoul »

This (search bar à la Firefox) is a great idea, for it would get rid of the dialog-over-results problem, it is a much better solution then the hopping box and would probably look mighty sexy (at least to me, I like the Firefox search bar or the Mail.app search bar).

BUT, it has some serious drawbacks from the user interface point of view. For one, it is tied to one document window, which the current dialog is not. What if the user types some search and then wants to make the same search on a different document? And then there is an issue with the focus – if there is an input box in the search bar (and there has to be), how do I change focus to the main window and back? In Firefox, the focus stays in the search bar. In Mail.app, the search bar never gets the focus. These are first two drawbacks that I found, and because this kind of widget is a bit non-standard in the OS X interface, I fear there might be others.

Otherwise the idea looks great. I don’t like the replace input stacked horizontally, I think it would be better to place it under the search bar and make a button for turning it off. Another button would show or hide the options, so that you could have a simple search bar without options. There could be a shortcut (and a menu item) that would bring up the “plain search” and there could be different shortcut to bring up the bar with the replace part visible.

It also depends on how much space there is in average Mellel document window. On my 19" LCD there is plenty, so that the search bar would look good. On smaller displays the bar could take so much of the document window it would look ugly.

How do the developers feel about this? I’m sure they would agree the s&r dialog needs to get compressed and the search bar would be a great way to ensure the dialog never hides the results.

P.S. As a bonus, the “Nothing found” line in the dialog could be replaced by a bezel (the shady blob that disappears after a second), which would be cool! [And another bezel for “reached end of the document, continuing from top”?]

P.P.S. Oh yes and let’s not forget the kitchen sink!
digimarkus
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Post by digimarkus »

joewiz wrote:What if, instead of a separate find & replace window, we had something like the Firefox find bar that rises from the bottom of the window. It can never cover the text.
I like this idea... if you look a pro applications... like Final Cut Pro or Aperture they are very good at making use of your full screen and tend not to use too many pop-up dialogues. I think of Mellel as a professional word processor and in this way I want it to feel more like Final Cut Pro than something like iMovie/iPhoto. Having a expandable, collapsable F&R pane along the bottom is a great "prolike" idea in my opinion. Very helpful on a laptop, where there can be very little screen space. Taking the idea one step further it could be a tab based space where other advanced search like queries could be run for things like indexing and cross-referencing.

- Mark
mkenney
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Post by mkenney »

There is a program called Pandora that is an interface for the TLG (a digital library of just about every known Greek text from antiquity). Search results are returned as a list in one window. When one clicks on one of the results, the corresponding section of text appears in a window below the list. If I recall correctly, one can set the number of surrounding lines to be shown. I don't really need to see the actual document, so long as corrections made in the lower window are made to the document. I understand that this might be difficult to implement. TextWranlger has a similar interface for its Find function, except that one cannot make changes in the lower window. I suppose that would be the difficult part.
Ori Redler
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Post by Ori Redler »

We were looking into some way to make the search more economic and out of the way when not needed. In time we'll get to that too...
Ori Redler from RedleX
Timotheus
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Post by Timotheus »

@mkenney: for another application which works like that, see http://www.iverbum.com .
Mart°n
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Post by Mart°n »

joewiz wrote: What if, instead of a separate find & replace window, we had something like the Firefox find bar that rises from the bottom of the window.
I really like the Firefox find bar and use it quite often becasue it works so well. I’ve already suggested a Firefox like implementation over a year ago. Especially the highlight all option is a very helpful one.

Maybe it makes sense to split Mellel’s search capabilities into a QuickFind (the bar at the bottom) and the Advance Find (the current window). I often like to find a word or a passage inside a text and don’t need the advanced stuff (Mellel’s regular expressions and the like) here. I even don’t need replace in this case (but it could be implemented in Mellel’s find-bar) only a search with a highlighter that is quickly available and doesn’t hide the found results.

I guess the great “find as you type” option in Firefox doesn’t make sense here but if the search bar could be activated via Command+F you could easily put the focus to the bar by pressing this shortcut. Advanced find could then use Command+Shift+F or could be activated via an “Advanced…” button from the find bar.

In Smultron (a text editor) you could quick search a document via the find bubble (as seen on TV, iTunes, Preview…) within the current document and could open a advanced find window which enables you to search across all documents. With this approach, one find is tied to the document and one could be a window that could be used in all documents.
Reiner
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Post by Reiner »

Mart°n wrote:I really like the Firefox find bar and use it quite often becasue it works so well. I’ve already suggested a Firefox like implementation over a year ago. Especially the highlight all option is a very helpful one.
But a find-sidebar would be very awful in Mellel imho. I would prefer a Spotlight- or Finder-Window-like implementation.
Reiner
zoul
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Post by zoul »

Are we talking about the same search bar? I am talking about this thing, see the search at the bottom of the window. I think this could look good in Mellel.
Mart°n
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Post by Mart°n »

zoul wrote:Are we talking about the same search bar? I am talking about this thing, see the search at the bottom of the window. I think this could look good in Mellel.
That’s what I wrote about.
ozean
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Post by ozean »

Yes, I also would love a Find Bar like implementation!
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Post by nicka »

For Mellel's quick find function, I'd prefer an Apple Preview-like find to a Firefox-like find.
The main difference is that in Preview you get a scrollable list of hits in their order in the document, whereas in Firefox you have to keep pressing Apple-G to jump from one hit to the next. (A less important difference is that in Preview the results are in a sidebar, but in Firefox they are in a bottom-bar.)
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Post by aechallu »

nicka wrote:For Mellel's quick find function, I'd prefer an Apple Preview-like find to a Firefox-like find.
I would love a preview-like quick find function.
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