requests re: bibliography palette

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FA1
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requests re: bibliography palette

Post by FA1 »

In most cases it probably won't be necessary, but on occasion it would be helpful to be able to scroll the citations window in the bib palette horizontally as well as vertically. And I'd like to be able to resize the palette so there would be more vertical space as well.

Also maybe it is possible to exclude multiple instances of the same reference if the only difference is page numbers. In citing the same work again, you will nearly always change the page number or use without page numbers (and without horizontal scrolling, you can't distinguish the multiple instances anyway).
nicka
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Post by nicka »

It would be cool to have flippy triangles (like in list view in the Finder) in the bibliography list to hide/show references by page. Sometimes the overall reference (book, journal article) is what you want; sometimes you need the specific reference to a page. The overall reference would be treated like a folder in list view, with a flippy triangle beside it, clicking which would reveal all the specific references.
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Post by FA1 »

One more thing on the bibliography palette. I end up having a lot of citations with a % in front of it (so that it shows only the date in the text) and others without, showing author and date in the text, and sometimes both for the same reference. In the palette, the cites are sorted alphabetically, so you first get an alphabetical list of cites that start with %, and then it starts over for ones without.

It seems to me it would better to ignore the % for sorting alphabetically. Then you'd only have to look through the list once for an author's name. Or maybe even leave out the instances with % in the palette (and if you need to, then you'd add it after inserting). Not sure which would be better, but I might lean towards the latter to keep the list shorter.
Hans-Reinhard Koch
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Suggestions for the Bibliography Palette

Post by Hans-Reinhard Koch »

It seems to me it would better to ignore the % for sorting alphabetically.
I whole-heartedly agree that sorting the references with ignored % and leading remarks within \\ makes sense.

I would also like another button in Mellel's Bibliography palette that opens a specific reference in Bookends Reference View, when one of the references in Mellel's Bibliography palette is selected.

And thirdly I would like a possibility to (toggle-wise) enlarge the bibliography palette into a bigger window. For large Papers with hundereds of references the litlle palette is simply to small.

Hans-Reinhard
Hans-Reinhard Koch, Bonn, Germany
nicka
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Post by nicka »

I agree with all three of Hans-Reinhard's points.

Nick
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Post by rward »

These are good suggestions. I particularly like ignoring the % marks and other preceding text. I frequently insert text before the citation itself, for example, \for a review, see \ ... So currently:
%Tipper '93 gets sorted to the top of the list,
Tipper '93 to the middle, and
\for a review, see \Tipper '93 to the end!
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Post by ozean »

Aye, these are all excellent suggestions! :)
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Post by macsailor »

Great suggestions.
Peter Edwardsson
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danzac

Post by danzac »

The increased integration between Mellel and Bookends is always near and dear to my heart, and really back these suggestions.

The ignoring of the page numbers is a real must- often my bib.palette is totally filled with a single book with a bunch of different cited pages.

I also really like the idea about enlarging the bib. palette window, but here's a different spin....

As I was writing something in Pages the other day I opened the media browser and was flipping through my iPhoto library. Then it dawned on me, wouldn't a Bookends browser in Mellel be really cool? Like the media browser in Pages, the groups are at the top, and it has a search bar. The one thing I would add to it is what Mellel already has- a list of what has already been cited. This would really take the integration between Bookends and Mellel to the next level (now we just need to convince all the developers to work with DEVONthink as well).

Another major request for me in the area of bibliography management is WYSIWYG citations (similar to Endnote/Word's 'cite while you write'). In this regard Mellel is NOT a true WYSIWYG editor because you have to do a scan that completely changes the layout of the paper. This really needs to be rectified.

My 2 cents.
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Post by sebheck »

OH YES, the ability to resize the bibliography palette would be SOOOO helpful! I am even willing to pay extra for it, so desperate am I! I am working with hundreds of references in my dissertation these days and it's just getting too much!

So I am HOPING this will be a change that can be implemented anytime soon!
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Post by Reiner »

I also would appreciate it very much if I was able to resize the bibliography palette. But not only that. There are some more possibilities to improve the use the this palette increasingly I think:

- First the way citations are displayed in the palette could be changed in order to save place. Instead of "Meyer & Miller, '04" it would be much better (while shorter) to have "Meyer/Miller 04" instead ("/" instead of " & ", deleting the "," and the "'').

- For the same reason "\see \Meyer, '99" should be replaced by "see Meyer 99" from my point of view.

- Since one of the last updates different citations (with different page numbers) from the same book are reflected in the palette as if they were exactly the same. This is space saving but not very nice to work with citations I think. Instead I would suggest to have grouped all citations from the same book (or other reference types) with a triangle in front to expand or collapse the view. The illustrate what I mean:

collapsed view:

Code: Select all

> Meyer 99
expanded view:

Code: Select all

> Meyer 99
  Meyer 99, 34
  see Meyer 99, 45
  Meyer 99, 231
I would prefer to have the citations with prefixes ("\see \" for example) sorted here instead of having them listed as if they are from different books.

I also would prefer to have them sorted following the page number, not the prefix.

If you drag and drop a citation from the collapsed view it should be added to your text without prefix, suffix or page number I think.


What do you think?
Reiner
nicka
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Post by nicka »

I would prefer to have the citations with prefixes ("\see \" for example) sorted here instead of having them listed as if they are from different books.

I also would prefer to have them sorted following the page number, not the prefix.
Very much agreed. The part of the list of citations with text before the author is useless as it stands. I really think flippy triangles are the way to go.
rickl
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Another suggestion

Post by rickl »

Another wish item for the Bib palette:

Easy as it is to switch to Bookends to insert a reference, if I'm going to be inserting 4 or 5 references in a single sentence, the switching can get tedious, and break my flow of thinking. I'd love to be able to put some references into the palette in Mellel, BEFORE writing sentences that cite them. Not sure how realistic this is, but it would be very nice.
Hans-Reinhard Koch
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Post by Hans-Reinhard Koch »

nicka wrote:
I would prefer to have the citations with prefixes ("\see " for example) sorted here instead of having them listed as if they are from different books.

I also would prefer to have them sorted following the page number, not the prefix.
Very much agreed. The part of the list of citations with text before the author is useless as it stands. I really think flippy triangles are the way to go.
Agreed again. I am working on a book with presently appr. 500 References and some of them quoted several times. It is useless and frustrating to try to navigate in the little palette list to search a reference, especially when you forgot, whether you should look under surname, %surname, or "\see \ surname…" or "\cf.\ surname".

So for me the list in the palette is completely useless. I only use the buttons on the right. When I look for a reference, I jump to bookends ad search and navigate there. If the list in the palette should be any good to users, it would be necessary to enlarge it (e. g. with a toggle button for small and large palette view), and the references should be ordered by authorname alphabetically.

Regards Hans-Reinhard
Hans-Reinhard Koch, Bonn, Germany
rickl
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Post by rickl »

Hans-Reinhard Koch wrote: So for me the list in the palette is completely useless. I only use the buttons on the right. When I look for a reference, I jump to bookends ad search and navigate there. If the list in the palette should be any good to users, it would be necessary to enlarge it (e. g. with a toggle button for small and large palette view), and the references should be ordered by authorname alphabetically.
I'd like to echo this, too.
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