Floating frame for graphics and text (text box)

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Frames (floating rectangular areas of arbitrary content)

I want it now ...
16
47%
It's a good idea, but not a top priority ...
14
41%
Useless ...
4
12%
 
Total votes: 34

mikejt
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Floating frame for graphics and text (text box)

Post by mikejt »

As several people have noted on the email reflector, it would be extremely nice to have frames (rectangles of independent content of any type) that can be placed anywhere on a page. The frames could be attached to a particular page by location (x/y or relative to page - "top/middle/botton, left/center/right" or relative to a particular text object or anchor). They would have table-like attributes so that the border spacing/line/background could be specified ... we would also need text flow attributes (none[overlap], top/bottom only, full).

This would allow graphics, tables, and arbitrary text to be placed in frames that are either fixed on the page or move based on some particular bit of text. I think this would encompass marginalia, side notes, and other "almost DTP" functions .... certainly all the ones that I use ...

FrameMaker does this now, but the user interface leaves a lot to be desired. MS Word pretends to do this, but I'll be damned if I can make anchored frames behave ...
ptram
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Post by ptram »

This is fundamental for technical documents. Frames allow for flexible placement of tables, illustrations, secundary flows of text (like hints) not available in other ways.

Since FrameMaker does not have a sticky note system, frames can also be used for that. I hope Melle will include sticky notes in an easier, more elegant way (maybe, transparent anchored or free floating frames).

Paolo
rpcameron
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Post by rpcameron »

While I think that free-floating frames would be nice, I think the two things that need to be implemented that will render this a little less necessary would be allowing text to wrap around images, as well as marginalia. This will allow for better integration of images and text, as well as margin notes.

(And while I believe these features would be very nice to have, full and complete gloss support is more important to me.)
— Robert Cameron
aechallu
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Post by aechallu »

I endorse this petition!

Just to dream a little bit... It would also be nice to be able to make the frame appear at the end of the document and add a marker in its original place ("<PLACE TABLE X HERE>"). Ideally that option would be coded in a frame style so that we can easily alter the placement of all frames of a given style by switching style sets :-)

AC
rpcameron
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Post by rpcameron »

aechallu wrote:I endorse this petition!

Just to dream a little bit... It would also be nice to be able to make the frame appear at the end of the document and add a marker in its original place ("<PLACE TABLE X HERE>"). Ideally that option would be coded in a frame style so that we can easily alter the placement of all frames of a given style by switching style sets :-)

AC
The "Place Table X Here" bit will be taken care of with cross-references, which are coming in the next version (at least, that's what has been implied). Another way to do it, I suppose, is to use a note stream for your table numbering, and put the table in a footnote. It'd mean some creative style working for the table note stream, but I don't think it'd be that difficult ... Mellel's note streams are quite flexible and powerful, and I don't think most people realize just how flexible they can be.
— Robert Cameron
aechallu
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Post by aechallu »

Another way to do it, I suppose, is to use a note stream for your table numbering, and put the table in a footnote. It'd mean some creative style working for the table note stream, but I don't think it'd be that difficult ... Mellel's note streams are quite flexible and powerful, and I don't think most people realize just how flexible they can be.
Actually when I was writing this I was thinking exactly along similar lines -- that frames could build up on the notes approach (notes being a subclass with N instances of the frames class).
rpcameron
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Post by rpcameron »

aechallu wrote:
rpcameron wrote:Another way to do it, I suppose, is to use a note stream for your table numbering, and put the table in a footnote. It'd mean some creative style working for the table note stream, but I don't think it'd be that difficult ... Mellel's note streams are quite flexible and powerful, and I don't think most people realize just how flexible they can be.
Actually when I was writing this I was thinking exactly along similar lines -- that frames could build up on the notes approach (notes being a subclass with N instances of the frames class).
Frames as a subclass of notes? I'm not quite certain I understand this. How do propose this works?
— Robert Cameron
aechallu
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Post by aechallu »

Frames as a subclass of notes? I'm not quite certain I understand this. How do propose this works?
I meant the other way. Notes as a subclass of frames. Frames have property location (absolute or relative to page and to other frames) and perhaps other (border, filling, wrapping). Then notes have a limited subset of location properties (relative to page: either bottom of the page and hopefully some day to the right/left of the page; relative to document: end; relative to each other notes: note N+1 is located below N).

AC
rpcameron
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Post by rpcameron »

aechallu wrote:
Frames as a subclass of notes? I'm not quite certain I understand this. How do propose this works?
I meant the other way. Notes as a subclass of frames. Frames have property location (absolute or relative to page and to other frames) and perhaps other (border, filling, wrapping). Then notes have a limited subset of location properties (relative to page: either bottom of the page and hopefully some day to the right/left of the page; relative to document: end; relative to each other notes: note N+1 is located below N).
Ah, that would indeed be very powerful. My thought with the creation of marginalia and side-note styles would add just one more option to the note placement choices. Instead of bottom of text, below text and end of document, one more choice could be beside text. The addition of this would put the text within the margins. Page styles would need an additional setting for margins and absolute end, so there can be a defined column for the marginalia.

Frames may be a way to achieve this, but I think frames should wait until the end. Many people want something akin to FrameMaker, but I think we need to realize that Mellel is not a FrameMaker replacement. (I know it's not quite as powerful as FrameMaker, but KWord has many of the same features as FrameMaker, including its "everything is a frame" approach.)
— Robert Cameron
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