Size of Redlex

[gpolberd]

I realize this may be an inappropriate question for this forum, but I wanted to ask--how large is Redlex, in comparison with the WP divisions of its competitors (say, Nisus, Microsoft, or Apple (Pages))? Is it just Eyal and Ori (or Ori alone, Eyal having been quiet for so long)? Is there any reason why they do not wish to,or cannot, expand their enterprise? Given the rapidly increasing Apple market, including the market that Mellel is best directed to (academics, students, etc.), can Redlex risk expansion? Or is the concern that expansion will bring a reduction in quality to the product--too many cooks spoiling the broth, so to speak? Or is it that the user-base is too small or the fee for use too small ($35 is quite a bargain, I must say)? My hope is that Mellel could occupy a larger share of the market (and that, perhaps, development would move apace).

[miles11]

Or is the concern that expansion will bring a reduction in quality to the product--too many cooks spoiling the broth, so to speak? or the fee for use too small ($35 is quite a bargain, I must say)?

The license fee is small only until you understand that it is time limited. You will lhave to keep paying upgrade fees forever, if you wish to have access to improvements that are made to the program over time. If improvements to the program come very slowly, the additional upgrade fees could amount to a good deal of cash for anyone willing to continue paying. At least this is how I understand the time-limited upgrade fee process to work.

In contrast, many of the useful programs I have licensed provide free upgrades forever. These programs can be thought of as real bargains.
===

On the second point, I'd say too many cooks certainly spoiled the Micro$oft broth: Word, Exploder, etc.

[daiyi]

In contrast, many of the useful programs I have licensed provide free upgrades forever. These programs can be thought of as real bargains.

Please share with us these programs, as I love useful applications that have no upgrade fees. I doubt any of them are word processing applications, however. Redlers upgrade pricing and policy are, in my opinion, very reasonable.

[Timotheus]

Many developers of small applications ('small' in terms of amounts of users) are, like most of us, people with a job, for whom developing is a noble hobby in which they invest a tremendous amount of time, and with which they also manage to earn some money; and I guess the Redlers are no exception to this rule.

In order to make a living (or two, three, four livings) out of an application like Mellel, which is indeed very cheap for what it is, a company should have to sell many thousands of licenses every year; and I suspect this simply isn't the case. I bought Mellel in may 2004, that's to say almost four years ago. Since then, I have downloaded an infinity of updates, without ever being asked to pay an update fee. It's clear that a company which is so generous, will never make huge profits.

It's just a guess: but it seems to me that when they founded their company, the Redlers chose the democratic way (small pricing, in order to keep their product within everybody's reach) in the first place because that's how they are, but perhaps also because they thought this was the best way of conquering a considerable market share.

But Mellel is, and will always remain, an application for the happy few, at least in the Western World. For the many, there are a host of other applications, which are more sexy and more easy to use than Mellel.

In my opinion, it would be better if the Redlers tried to get some more money out of their application, in order to have more time to dedicate to its further development, to the benefit of all of us. Following the example of Devon, Nisus and many other companies, they could also consider the possibility of a more expensive Mellel Pro version. But until now they haven't. And they will have their good reasons.

[daiyi]

Very well put, Timotheus. I purchased a license in 2005 and will gladly pay the $19 upgrade fee when 2.5 comes out. Developing software such as Mellel is, I imagine, quite complex and time consuming. Redlers deserve to be rewarded for their efforts. In fact, if it helped to keep further development going along at a decent pace, I would be more than willing to pay more for such great software.

[gpolberd]

But Mellel is, and will always remain, an application for the happy few, at least in the Western World. For the many, there are a host of other applications, which are more sexy and more easy to use than Mellel.

In my opinion, it would be better if the Redlers tried to get some more money out of their application, in order to have more time to dedicate to its further development, to the benefit of all of us. Following the example of Devon, Nisus and many other companies, they could also consider the possibility of a more expensive Mellel Pro version. But until now they haven't. And they will have their good reasons.

Timotheus points to my concern, i.e., Mellel is still an application for the "happy few" and, were something catastrophic to occur (a death, one of the Redlers abandoning the enterprise, etc.), it could be no more. I disagree with Timotheus that there are a "host" of other word-processing applications for the Mac that are easier to use. Perhaps there are some that are easier to use for those wishing a general, all-around word-processor, but there are not a *host* of easier-to-use programs. I count Nisus, MSWord, and Pages as the most widely known commercially available alternatives. I've read about, and investigated, Scrivener, LaTeX, NeoOffice, DevonThink, and others that are less well-known and/or not terribly easy to use (e.g., LaTeX), but I was not sufficiently taken by them to use them in my work. So, for those of us who use bibliographic programs and employ two languages (for me, Chinese) that require different fonts, there really aren't many options. I have free access, through the university, to MSWord, but I don't like it, don't like how mouse-dependent it is, how few set-up options I have, how it is organized so that things are deeply embedded or in long lists of options, how unstable it is, how it can't even read its own older files properly. And I can't stand how there really is no user-manual, how I have to search for the answer online using their terrible search-engine (which often gives me the wrong answer). Nisus is OK but I don't like its menus, its GUI, or how it, too, does not really have an advanced styles mechanism. Mellel has styles, it has markers that can be easily searched (great for when one has questions or concerns about a particular part of the text), it has secondary language fonts that kick in automatically (no need for me to set up a Chinese font style), it has a rearrangeable outline, it has multiple note streams. And yet, its development is relatively slow (no index, no cross-references, no blablabla), for whatever reason, and it still has yet to occupy its rightful place in the market. Do I really need to consider Nisus? I've tried it several times...now that I'm used to Mellel and its elegance, I resist using other programs. I, like Daiyi, would be happy to pay more (a whole lot more, double) for a "Pro" version of Mellel, to make Mellel a dominant word-processing company. If that's never going to happen, if Mellel will always hang by a thread, facing extinction at any moment, I should consider other options. I don't want to invest time in learning the ins-and-outs of other programs, but I don't want to be faced with nothing if Mellel goes away. Do the Redlers wish to speak on this matter? Is Redlex really a second job or hobby?

[transalpin]

[JOB] Looking for Cocoa developer in Israel (Tel-Aviv)
FROM : Eyal Redler
DATE : Tue Jan 29 22:37:52 2008

Hi All,

RedleX is looking for a Cocoa developer in the Tel-Aviv area to help
on the development and testing of our word processor Mellel and other
future products. Programming experience is a must but we'll be happy
to hire a fast and eager to learn Cocoa/Mac newbie.

http://www.cocoabuilder.com/archive/mes ... /29/197567

“Other future products”?

[gpolberd]

This is good news! I'm glad to read that they're trying to hire another programmer.

[gpolberd]

I saw this posting by Ori on another thread, a posting that should assuage many, so I copy it here, as it answers the question:

soliphint wrote:
I note the latest Macworld, in it short blurb about other word processors, mentions Mariner Write and Nisus Pro, but doesn't mention Mellel. Maybe they know what the rest of us are reluctant to admit - Mellel's development is all but dead.

Here is Ori's reply to soliphint:

Not true, but I'll need to explain the circumstances of the last year a bit. In laymen's terms, and without getting into complicated programming terms, what happened this year is the following:
A. One of the developers gained a new home, a girlfriend, her two sons (and two dog).
B. The second gained a new home and a girlfriend.
C. The third said goodbye to all that and A and B had to find someone to replace him.
D. And an additional programmer.
Hence, it would not be too presumptuous of me to claim that within the fair borders of reasonable doubt A and B got a life and during that getting of life had less time to devout to development.

It would have been nice of reality to introduce all those changes at once and not piecemeal, but this is not how it happened.

Anyway, life permitting, we intend to go in 2008 and get to the fast pace of development that typified the first five years of Mellel (2002-2006)...

Ori

Development at Mellel is not dead. That is excellent, excellent news. Such a phenomenal product, it puts many other WP's to shame. Where else are styles used so effectively? Or markers? Or second-language use? Or multiple note streams? Or integration with Bookends? And how many others have such beautiful textual rendition? Can Mariner Write or Nisus or Pages really be compared with this beautiful product on many fronts? I'm so relieved its development is moving forward... I can't imagine using another word processor, really I can't. There are many, I believe, who share my view. Thanks, Ori, Eyal, and programmer C!

[konanken]

Right on! That is exciting!

[Ori Redler]

Many developers of small applications ('small' in terms of amounts of users) are, like most of us, people with a job, for whom developing is a noble hobby in which they invest a tremendous amount of time, and with which they also manage to earn some money; and I guess the Redlers are no exception to this rule.

We are, I think. We live by Mellel (and have been for the last 4 years or so), so it may be noble, but not a noble hobby.

The pricing and upgrade policy for Mellel is the result of two concerns:
A. Ugrades stink! The usual method to upgrades with most products and companies is to "force feed" people: offer a 'special pricing' for upgrading from the latest version to the new one and make it clear to people that if they don't upgrade now, with the next version they'll be forced to upgrade for much more. That stinks. So, our policy is and will be that one should upgrade only if the improvements merits it and at his or her leisure. Once you've purchased a license for Mellel, it's yours for life. If you want to stick to version 1.3.2, that's fine by us. When you feel like it, you can upgrade from any version, whenever purchased, to the latest version for the same fee (that's why we still get people who upgrade from 1.6.7, for example).
B. Reasonable price: Word processors are the bread and butter of working with a computer. They should be priced accordingly.

[Timotheus]

It's a pleasure to hear that it's possible to make more than one living out of Mellel; the application really deserves it!

But precisely because wordprocessors are the bread and butter of working with the computer, they should be excellent, or become excellent as soon as possible. And personally, I'm ready to pay for speedy excellence.

And let's not forget that Mellel is not, and doesn't want to be, just a wordprocessor among many others. Mellel wants to deliver a certain kind of product for a certain kind of people; for people with more than average wordprocessing needs. And what's wrong with paying a more than average price for a more than average product? For those who just need a wordprocessor, there are Bean and a host of other wordprocessors which are free or very cheap.

And it's not necessarily true that upgrades stink! Let me give one (rather extreme) example. Tinderbox, which is not a wordprocessor but certainly a very interesting application, presently costs $ 229, and comes with a full year of upgrades. After that year, upgrading from any previous version (not just from the last one) costs $ 90. Yes, that's a lot of money, for me too. But the upside is that the developer has a clear incentive to deliver, or else people won't upgrade. And in fact Tinderbox every year has a substantial number of improvements; there are never periods of slackness in its development. And that's a very positive thing.

In the past few months, I often asked myself which wordprocessor I would use if Mellel would disappear. The answer: no idea. Pages is nice, but not for academic use; Nisus is nice and presently more feature rich than Mellel, but not nearly as good as Mellel; and I don't want to go back to Word or one of its clones. Probably I would end up writing my academic stuff in Scrivener, using Indesign for preparing it for printing. But I sincerely hope that day will never come!

Girlfriends, houses and dogs have one thing in common: they all cost money. Girlfriends, moreover, have an additional disadvantage: they sometimes become mothers, and then they become even more expensive. That's why, dear Eyal and Ori, there's every reason to deliver in order to earn some more money; or else you'll be kicked out of your houses, your girlfrieds will walk away, and you'll be left alone with your hungry barking dogs, in the backstreets of Tel Aviv!

[Reiner]

If you have that much money, why don't you make a fat donation to the Redlers and stop crying for higher prices here?

[Timotheus]

If you have that much money, why don't you make a fat donation to the Redlers and stop crying for higher prices here?

I don't have much money, and I'm not begging for higher prices, but I'm begging for a speedier development of Mellel; and in my view, there often is a link between the price of a product and the tempo of its development. Excellent and free would be nice, of course, but that's not the real world. But all this should be abundantly clear from my posting.

[verma]

Girlfriends, moreover, have an additional disadvantage: they sometimes become mothers, and then they become even more expensive.

Apart from that being utterly insensitive, the size of Redlex would then simply increase too, allowing them to feed the upgrades faster to the hungry mob.