references from archives

raymond · Post by **raymond** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:36 am

Hello,

Is there a way to add to the bibliography list in Bookends, namely in the database, citations taken from documents in archives.

TIA

Raymond

Reiner · Post by **Reiner** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:51 am

I think yes, it is. But, hey: This is the Mellel-Forum.

I would bet you have to add a new reference type in Bookends' preferences and name the fields as you need it.

nicka · Post by **nicka** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:16 am

Do you mean: is there a way to import citations that are just in plain text, for example in a bibliography list at the end of a paper?

If so, then yes, sort of. You can write a filter that will attempt the task, but it will not be able to do a perfect job because formatting is rarely consistent enough. It is usually quicker just to enter the references by hand or find them in an online database, I believe.

raymond · Post by **raymond** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:03 am

I am afraid I was not clear.
I wanted to ask if there exist in the database the possibility to include references from an archive, like for example "archive document" as compared to "book" or "journal article" references.

I assume that for those making research in archives, or also in archives, this possibility is important, and may be, should be included in the pre-installed possibilities.[/i]

nicka · Post by **nicka** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:28 am

We really ought to take this discussion over to the Bookends forum...

So what you want to know is whether there is a reference type for archive documents?
You can see all the preset reference types by opening a reference and clicking on the dropdown menu at the top right. There isn't one specifically called 'archive', but maybe one of the others will suit. If not, there are six unused reference types. You can rename one in Preferences > References by clicking on the name of the reference type in the left pane.

If you have further questions about this, or a feature suggestion for Jon, why not post them in the Bookends forum?

raymond · Post by **raymond** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:00 pm

[quote="

If you have further questions about this, or a feature suggestion for Jon, why not post them in the Bookends forum?[/quote]

You know well why I prefere to ask these questions here and not on bookends forum.
And at the end, these question relate to mellel as well. Even though, I have tried to ask the question there, and it is here I got a more adequate answer.

Thanks for your answer, and I'll try to see how I can arrange it.
You hit the nail when you spoke about something missing in Bookends. This possibility should have been proposed in bookends by its creator.

aechallu · Post by **aechallu** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:12 pm

While Bookends or other solutions would allow Raymond to define custom bibliographic types, I think he wants primary sources to be treated differently from standard bibliographic sources (beyond formatting). Unfortunately the answer is no. There's only one bibliography section, and you can only have one active database (v.g. you can't have a database for primary and another for secondary sources as it may make sense for some type of work).

For primary sources I use filemaker (but anything such as Devonthink, Zotero or Scribe would work depending on your work style) and I have a calculated field that does the formatting; I just copy/paste that into Mellel and it works well. I also find that I need a lot of tweaking in my primary source citation, so I feel a bibliographic formatter wouldn't be of much use in my case.

nicka · Post by **nicka** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:45 pm

Sorry, Raymond: I meant this -- "If you have further questions about this, or a feature suggestion for Jon, why not post them in the Bookends forum?" -- as a suggestion, rather than a request for information. I didn't mean to be disingenuous.
And I don't mind answering your questions about Bookends here, anyway: I just worry that we might annoy people by being off topic.

While Bookends or other solutions would allow Raymond to define custom bibliographic types, I think he wants primary sources to be treated differently from standard bibliographic sources (beyond formatting).

I see. This hadn't occurred to me.

Edit/Addition: If I understand properly what is wanted, then it might be something that could best be implemented at the Mellel end. That is, if what is wanted is the ability to have two separate sets of citation objects in one document, giving rise to two separate bibliographies, then I would guess this could be implemented by the Mellel developers without changes in Bookends. It would just require two streams of citations in Mellel, rather in the way that one can have multiple streams of footnotes. Have I understood correctly?

raymond · Post by **raymond** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:12 pm

I will try to touch your answer and the one from aechallu.

I didn't want two streams of bibliography, at least not until you have raised it.
It is possible that this will be now my solution.
I thought at the beginning, when asking my question, that it would be possible in bookends as well, and this is my initial request to add the possibility to quote primary references as well in bookends.

I assume now that it is not possible, and may be would not be possible in the future.

So may be the solutions you two are proposing will be my way as well.

nicka · Post by **nicka** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:34 pm

to add the possibility to quote primary references as well in bookends.

I'm still not sure quite what this means. (I'm a scientist, and we don't really have a distinction between primary and secondary references.) Is the ideal to have separate bibliographies automatically generated for the two sorts of reference? Is there an example online somewhere that shows the kind of thing you want to be able to do?

shades · Post by **shades** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:41 am

In the theological field, there is a distinction between primary sources (actual documents) and secondary sources (comments on the primary sources); often they are separated in a bibliography. Not sure if I can find an online example, though.

ozean · Post by **ozean** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:48 am

Multiple streams for the bibliography is a feature request that Jon is aware on and that he agreed to look into.