Bibliography is inserted before endnotes?

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boris
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Bibliography is inserted before endnotes?

Post by boris » Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:06 pm

When I scan a document containing endnotes (real endnotes - not references) the bibliography (Bookends) is inserted before the endnotes. Is there a way to get the bibliography after the endnotes?
Boris
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boris
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Post by boris » Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:27 am

I have to reply to my own post :(
It looks as if nobody knows the answer. This probably means that for the time being you either use endnotes (the rel ones) or Bookends list of references in your document. It looks stupid when endnotes come after the bibliography.
Boris
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loquat149
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Post by loquat149 » Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:25 pm

boris wrote:I have to reply to my own post :(
It looks as if nobody knows the answer. This probably means that for the time being you either use endnotes (the rel ones) or Bookends list of references in your document. It looks stupid when endnotes come after the bibliography.
I haven't used the endnotes feature yet, but I did produce a manuscript which needed the bibliography section to come before the tables and figures. Since Bookends places the biblio. at the end of the document, I simply cut-and-pasted it to the desired location. Obviously, if you have to update your citations, you'll have to repeat this step.

Dave

boris
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Post by boris » Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:51 pm

OK. But my problem is the opposite. I want the bibliography to come after the endnotes but Mellel insists on puting the endnotes last.
Boris
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boris
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Post by boris » Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:25 pm

I think I found a way to do it. One has to use section breaks and set endnotes to be placed "Below text". That makes it possible to, e.g., have endnotes at the end of each chapter as long as each chapter is a new section and you set numbering as "restart every section". If there were a way to put the list of references too at the end of a section one could put together a multiauthor volume where each chapter has its own endnotes and bibliography. Perhaps there is a way to do that too?
This is the first time I found any use for section breks.
Mellel has more secrets than Mata Hari.[/b]
Boris
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macsailor
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Post by macsailor » Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:48 pm

boris wrote: Mellel has more secrets than Mata Hari.[/b]
I have full confidence in that Mellel will not share the same fate as Mata Hari did, but rather the contrary be very successful indeed.
Peter Edwardsson
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Truth is not always popular, but it is always right.

boris
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Post by boris » Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:58 pm

Peter forced me to change my signature.
Boris
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macsailor
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Post by macsailor » Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:13 pm

boris wrote:Peter forced me to change my signature.
Haha :lol:

My intentions was to write something every day. I haven't done it in this forum, but I do something every day. :wink:
Peter Edwardsson
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Truth is not always popular, but it is always right.

MathiasG
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Re: Bibliography is inserted before endnotes?

Post by MathiasG » Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:15 am

This topic is 16 years old, but I have the same problem  : is there a workaround? Endnotes need to be before the biblio; I'd be very grateful for a suggestion, if this has been addressed somewhere

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Re: Bibliography is inserted before endnotes?

Post by Icelander » Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:16 pm

I'd be very grateful for a suggestion, if this has been addressed somewhere
A suggestion was given 14 years ago in this very same thread by loquat149 (Dave).

The solution seems to be to cut and paste the bibliography to the desired location.

The drawback is, if you update the citations, be it that you add a citation or delete one, you'll have to repeat this step. The same applies if you add a new note. Deleting a note, however, doesn't damage the arrangement.

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Re: Bibliography is inserted before endnotes?

Post by MathiasG » Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:48 pm

Thanks! I had seen this, but cutting ans pasting does not seem the best way (if you update anything, it's lost), considering you already do not have a dynamic table of content. I wished there was a way to assign a section for the endnotes and another one to the biblio. Otherwise, I won't be able to use Mellel for my book.

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Re: Bibliography is inserted before endnotes?

Post by Icelander » Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:20 pm

MathiasG wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:48 pm
Otherwise, I won't be able to use Mellel for my book.
In the thread "Facing a new decade" Eyal (the developer) mentioned "flexible positioning of bibliography and end notes" as one of Mellel's objectives for the future; so he is at least aware of the problem.
<viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3721&p=19846#p19846>

Talking about "flexible positioning" is putting it mildly. The truth is, it's stupid when endnotes come after the bibliography", as Boris already said. Changing this should be his first priority, not wasting time implementing an ePub export-option, when clearly nobody wants that.

Send a feature request to Eyal. He needs to receive data first-hand about what we really want. That's what he keeps saying. If nobody contacts him with problems like this, then nothing is ever going to change, and only we ourselves are to blame…

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Re: Bibliography is inserted before endnotes?

Post by DavidH » Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:38 pm

Boris’s old workaround should still work as well. Elaborating:

Using Insert > Note > Edit note attributes, you can set endnotes to print at each section break (or at each page range break).

Then if you write your document so that there’s just one section break (or just one page range break), at the very end of your main text, endnotes should be printed together at the end of your main text, your Bibliography should follow, and everything should update properly as you add or delete notes or references.

Using the page range option instead of the section option is nice if you have other reasons to divide your main text into multiple sections but want the endnotes to print together at the end of the main text.

(Page range or page style breaks (Mellel uses both names) exist in order to allow you to have different page styles before and after, but you don’t actually have to change anything.)

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Re: Bibliography is inserted before endnotes?

Post by MathiasG » Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:18 pm

Thanks Icelander and David, I really appreciate
@Icelander   : I'll send a feature request, but I thought the forum was watched, it's been an issue for some years. I must say I'm a bit disappointed, I have the desktop version and the Ipad one, but this kind of thing is a no go for a bigger project with Mellel (that I had chosen for the neat integration with Bookends).
@David  : Thanks, I understand how it can work, but this brings the constraint of only one section (or the equivalent with page breaks), and I need them for other reasons.
As far as I can see, I won't take the risk of multiplying workarounds in a 100k words book. Having to refresh the ToC each time I change something was already a challenge. When you are in the final stages of a long project, you need to be sure that everything compiles correctly when you make minor changes. I have never seen a book with the biblio _before_ the endnotes (except a few scientific editions where you can have the biblio before the apparatus).

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Re: Bibliography is inserted before endnotes?

Post by DavidH » Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:44 am

This might or might not help in your situation, but page breaks and page RANGE breaks (also known as page style breaks) are two different things. You need a page break whenever you want to force the text to continue on a fresh page, but you ordinarily need a page RANGE break only when you want to change a page style (changing footers, margins, orientation) or reset the page numbers. If you don’t need to do any of those things within the main body of the text that contains all your endnotes, then the page range version of Boris’s workaround should work, even if your main text contains lots of section breaks, and even if you have other page range breaks early on to set up your front matter.

Of course life would be simpler if you could tell Mellel directly where to put the bibliography.

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