Some newbie questions

[moineau]

Hello,

Many thanks for your great product. I recently discovered Mellel and decided to give it a try. Like a lot of people, I got tired of Microsoft Word, I decided to work with something that suits my needs more properly, since I'm using a lot of citations. Still, a few questions remain :

1) I really do like the automatic typing functions in Word. Why can't we have automatic capital in the beginning of a sentence ? Also, why is it so difficult to have an automatic superscript for things like 1st, 2nd, etc. And since I'm from France, "20e siècle" (20th century). Also, when I write "coeur" (heart), in Word automatically i get "cœur" - not in Mellel.

2) I have several character style and auto-title style problems. Sometimes when I want to change the font of a title, it just won't work. And when I click on character in "paragraph and character status" i got a message "this can't be done, the style doesn't exist" or something like that.

3) Most bizarre, I changed the font to Cambria and got a superscripted sentence : "I was born" with "was born" in superscript. I checked the font position, everything's normal.

Thanks in advance for your answers.

[rpcameron]

Welcome to Mellel. I’ve tried to put together a couple of answers to your questions, and hopefully some of the other users will be able to fill in the rest of the blanks.

1) I really do like the automatic typing functions in Word. Why can't we have automatic capital in the beginning of a sentence ? Also, why is it so difficult to have an automatic superscript for things like 1st, 2nd, etc. And since I'm from France, "20e siècle" (20th century). Also, when I write "coeur" (heart), in Word automatically i get "cœur" - not in Mellel.

This is a feature that is not currently in Mellel. Users are divided about whether or not they want this feature implemented. Two topics where this has been mentioned or discussed are:

• Auto-Correct Spelling Mistakes, and
• Em dash.

As you can see from the comments, I personally am against this feature. However, if you currently depend on this type of feature, there are some workarounds and third–party tools that are mentioned.

2) I have several character style and auto-title style problems. Sometimes when I want to change the font of a title, it just won't work. And when I click on character in "paragraph and character status" i got a message "this can't be done, the style doesn't exist" or something like that.

I’m not sure exactly what you mean here. The font face/family is usually determined by the Character Style, not the Paragraph Style. The Paragraph Style may specify a default character style, but that is used when the Paragraph Style is next used—existing occurrences of that Paragraph Style will not switch Character Styles. If you want to change an existing Character Style, then you need to modify that font setting through the Edit Character Style dialog. If this does not help, please clarify your situation so we may offer some other suggestions.

3) Most bizarre, I changed the font to Cambria and got a superscripted sentence : "I was born" with "was born" in superscript. I checked the font position, everything's normal.

I suggest changing the Style Variation to your base style. This sounds like there may be a previous Style Variation in the sentence, but the previous font did not support OpenType superscripts. Also, superscripted numbers may be controlled not only by the “Position” drop-down menu in the Character Appearance palette, but also by the “OpenType: Features” drop-down in the same palette. This may also be due to Cambria not being an OpenType font. (However, Cambria is one of the best typefaces to come out of Microsoft for large bodies of type. It is just a shame that it is only a TrueType font, and does not support advanced OpenType features.)

Hopefully some of the responses have been of help. Let us know if there is anything more we might be able to help with on this forum.

[moineau]

Thanks for a fast reply. Actually, I'll give Mellel a serious try, say, two months of learning, since it's such a stable program and is specially designed for academics.

I could live without the automatic replacement, but the whole thing about character and paragraph styles looks a bit complicated for me for now. Easy on paper, but difficult to implement.

Is there a way I could get an english version instead of a French one ? I read English and I have the Mellel guide, and using it with a French version is difficult.

The message I get (I translate from the French) is : "Impossible to edit this paragraph. This style doesn't belong to the basic style, you can't edit it".

[stephenandamanda]

Persist with learning about paragraph/character styles... read the user/guide + mellel tutorial.

I have mellel setup with my own style set and now I can just make a new file and start working without worrying about fonts, etc, etc because
my style set is just there to use.

It's a small investment of time upfront but the gains are worth it.

Steve

[moineau]

Thanks for your support. Time for an update

1) I really do like the automatic typing functions in Word. Why can't we have automatic capital in the beginning of a sentence ? Also, why is it so difficult to have an automatic superscript for things like 1st, 2nd, etc. And since I'm from France, "20e siècle" (20th century). Also, when I write "coeur" (heart), in Word automatically i get "cœur" - not in Mellel.

Not solved yet. Put it on a wish list for the next version : auto dash (after typing --), auto superscript for numbers, auto special characters (oe in "coeur' for example in French).

2) I have several character style and auto-title style problems. Sometimes when I want to change the font of a title, it just won't work. And when I click on character in "paragraph and character status" i got a message "this can't be done, the style doesn't exist" or something like that.

Solved ! The hardest thing to get for someone coming from Word, is the idea that you don't have a style that applies to characters and paragraphs, and titles, at the same time, but you separate characters from paragraphs from titles when you apply a certain style. I can see why Mellel does that, that gives room for a lot of options Word doesn't have. But it's not simple to grasp.

3) Most bizarre, I changed the font to Cambria and got a superscripted sentence : "I was born" with "was born" in superscript. I checked the font position, everything's normal.

Solved ! Cambria had a "superscript" option checked in Open Type, I must have done it by mistake.

One thing that would be really nice, is a completely revamped Guide. Which is NOT friendly AT ALL. A Guide is not a "description". You should re-write it all over - each chapter should be based on a particular mission. You already have a "stuff you can do", but this is the most important thing !!! For example; chapter 1 : description of the palette. Chapter 2 : basic editing. Chapter 3 : using styles for titles and TOC, etc. Let's hope Mellel becomes famous enough to draw attention from the guys from "The Missing Manual Series" !! IMHO of course.

Anyway, great work, guys. Go Israel !

[agse]

Hello,

1) I really do like the automatic typing functions in Word. Why can't we have automatic capital in the beginning of a sentence ? Also, why is it so difficult to have an automatic superscript for things like 1st, 2nd, etc. And since I'm from France, "20e siècle" (20th century). Also, when I write "coeur" (heart), in Word automatically i get "cœur" - not in Mellel.

Hi,

I use Typinator: it is very powerfull and it is available for all applications.
I think there is a demo you can try before buy.
André

[rpcameron]

moineau, glad to see that you got your problems solved and questions answered. The style system is definitely a bit different from Word (or even something else like InDesign), but it is much more flexible. You would probably do well to invest an afternoon crafting a complete Style Set (Characters, Paragraphs, Lists, Notes, Sections and Pages), as well as a usable Auto-Title setup. I guarantee that it will save you much time down the road as you continue your work with Mellel.

One thing that would be really nice, is a completely revamped Guide. Which is NOT friendly AT ALL. A Guide is not a "description". You should re-write it all over - each chapter should be based on a particular mission. You already have a "stuff you can do", but this is the most important thing !!! For example; chapter 1 : description of the palette. Chapter 2 : basic editing. Chapter 3 : using styles for titles and TOC, etc. Let's hope Mellel becomes famous enough to draw attention from the guys from "The Missing Manual Series" !! IMHO of course.

The Mellel Guide is a little out of date, that is true. There are also beginner’s tutorials to help you understand Mellel a bit more, as well. However, remember that many of the guides and tutorials are provided as a courtesy by other users. If there is a particular task that you were able to accomplish that was not well documented, perhaps you could recount your own steps and experiences into a tutorial for other users. Part of the reason Mellel is so successful is because of the involvement of its users, and the great user community that has developed around this great piece of software.

[moineau]

Thanks for your answers.

In fact, I thought i got my problem solved, but not really. I still don't understand how to create my own auto-titles. I changed the level one title, but the level 2 remains the same, even if i create a new style of heading, "title 2", changes won't apply. So i guess, I'm going to spend a lot more than just one afternoon on Mellel ! I realize Mellel is very flexible, and I really would like to get it nailed. But there's really a lot of parameters to take into consideration before feeling free with it. It's just like learning another language, after all, almost from scratch.

Anyway, my next mission is to create a style set from scratch. Obviously, that's the first thing to do, but in the guide, it begins only on the page 149 ! I'm sure you guys can ask "The Missing Manual" if they're interested in a book on Mellel, you're so much more advanced. The guide is definitely not friendly : what is the purpose of the "should i read this chapter ?" section ??? If I don't understand what style sets are for, how would I know this chapter is important for me ? Of course it's important, but you should do it differently - "Style sets are crucial if you intend to do documents your way", or that kind of stuff. Creating a software is one thing, giving it to the masses so they can understand is another...

[Mart°n]

Is there a way I could get an english version instead of a French one ? I read English and I have the Mellel guide, and using it with a French version is difficult.

That’s possible:

1. Close Mellel
2. Locate the Mellel application inside your Applications folder (or wherever you’ve copied it)
3. Right-click (or control click) the application and from the contextual menu select „Information“ (or whatever the French word may be)
4. A Information window will be opened with several information-sections (Spotlight, Universal, More Information, Name & Suffix, Preview, Languages, Owner)
5. Open the “Languages” section (if not already opened) and click on the Checkbox in front of “French” to disable this language. You may need to uncheck other languages too…
6. If your primary language (French) is no longer available, Mac OS X choses the next language that is defined in your “International” System-Preference, so if English is your second choice, Mellel will now be opened with an English interface, if Spanish is your second choice it will be opened with a Spanish interface (so you may need to disable the Spanish language too)
7. Restart Mellel, it should now use another language.

If you like to use the French version again, you could enable this language again.

Regarding the Manual. It’s true that it should be re-written from scratch because it is grown to something that isn’t easy to read and to follow and you have to read almost the whole thing to see the big picture of some features. So it works – kind of – but it could be improved.

[bluesdance]

There is a steep learning curve with Mellel, but if you're patient you will succeed, and plus you have the forum. We're all here to help each other out. I would recommend phrasing your issues as simple, direct questions so we can answer them.

If you're having a problem with changing the styling of an auto-title in the body of your text, go to Insert - Auto-Title - Edit Title Flows and style the headings to your heart's content, using the palette on the right, which is still active when you go into that dialog box.

Personally I find the guide very handy as it stands, but YMMV. Personally, I'd like to see an improved help file from within the program; that thing is nearly useless and it should probably be just thrown away until Mellel decides to make it more comprehensive and helpful.

[moineau]

Thank you very much, Mart°n, it worked ! This forum is full of geniuses.

Bluesdance, thank you also for your advice. But what I'd like to do is to change the auto-titles font, and you can' t do that in "edit title flows" window, that's what makes Mellel difficult to understand - in Word when you change the style, you have everything in one window - characters, spaces, alignment, etc. `

The problem is that i often get this message : "This style doesn't belong to the current Style Set, you can't edit it". Can you see what is the problem here ?

[verma]

But what I'd like to do is to change the auto-titles font, and you can' t do that in "edit title flows" window, that's what makes Mellel difficult to understand - in Word when you change the style, you have everything in one window - characters, spaces, alignment, etc. `

Well, you can. In the Edit title flows, select the autotitle you want to edit, go to the palette Character Style or Main Font if you haven't defined a style yet, and feel free to change and go crazy with fonts (you can use different fonts now in the same auto-title, vary font size, etc. etc.). There's hardly a limit to how you can vary the autotitles, in 2.5.

The problem is that i often get this message : "This style doesn't belong to the current Style Set, you can't edit it". Can you see what is the problem here ?

You might want to check how you defined your Style set (which elements belong to it, and if needed, copy and paste styles from other Style Sets into your Style Set of choice). See Style Sets > Edit Style Sets. You can also make different templates where you assign specific Style Sets to specific templates, and make sure Template1 always by default uses Style Set A.

[moineau]

Thanks Verma, I'm trying, but there's something I just can't get right. All these "+" and "-", I'm gonna need some time, or some really good tutorial to get it nailed.

[bluesdance]

the + button means new style... is that what's confusing you right now?

[moineau]

Well... a big, big thank to Donald Broadribb and his tutorial ! I thought it was a short tutorial at first, and didn't checked it. In fact, it's really good. We're definitely on the right track here.

So, to completely edit my auto-title I did the following :

1. I created my own set of styles, by copying the default one in Style set > Edit style set, then renamed and edited the title styles in "character" and "paragraph" sections (I created three different title styles). Most important : you've got to be sure each of your paragraph styles is associated with a particular character style (in the paragraph style window).

2. Then I went to the Auto-title palette, and edited the title flow for Level one. The editing of elements of the title was easy.
3. Then, I had to highlight the title in the format area of the "edit flow" window, then go to the "paragraph" menu, and select my desired level style. That particular step was difficult to grasp for me at first. The Guide is not quite clear on that one. The tutorial was a big help though. Once I got it, everything else was easy.

Thanks to the tutorial, I understood how to do a fast superscript - by creating a variation of the regular style...

Now I feel just like an alpinist on the top of the Everest !