Save Version/Discard changes

[jannuss]

I'm not sure if my problem involves a bug or a new feature or simply a misunderstanding on y part.

I have a document that contains sensitive information.
A colleague asks for a copy of the document . . . I delete the few sensitive lines, create a pdf and send it to him . . . the problem is what happens next

-- in 2.9 [which used the old "Save" option], when I went to close the file, Mellel would inform me that changes had been made to the document; did I want to save or discard them? I would click discard. The next time I opened the file it would contain the sensitive information.

-- in 3.0 [which uses the new "Save as Version" option], when I close the file, it simply closes with no questions asked. When I reopen the document, the sensitive information is missing.

OK, I understand the solution: use versions to drop back and restore my complete document.
but
isn't this a bug?
What right has Mellel to assume that I want to save my changes without asking me?
and
if it's a "feature" and not a bug
shouldn't there be some way to close the file without creating a version

??

Janet

[DRB]

Mellel 3.0 allows you to use the new standard Lion saving settings, or the traditional Mellel saving settings. You choose this via the Mellel Preferences. Your message indicates that your save-settings are those of Lion. You can change them to the traditional Mellel system of save/save as with the Preferences.

Don Broadribb

[jannuss]

OK, Don, I found the Preference Open & Save/Automatic Save and turned it off.
but
I definitely think this is still a bug or at best a very poor design feature.

1. I fail to see what the automatic save option has to do with the choice to use versions or not -- all the other applications I use differentiate between the two

2. I fail to understand why Mellel doesn't issue a warning when it auto-saves or at least issue a warning the first time it auto-saves

3. I fail to understand why auto-save is the default option for 3.0

I will be able to use the versions feature to undo all the damage this new option has caused me, but, as you can tell, I really, really, really don't appreciate being forced to do so !!!

Janet

[DylanMuir]

Janet, as I understand it, these saving semantics are how Apple wants to do things now. You don't need to explicitly save, and state is always preserved when you close and open a file. It takes a bit of getting used to, but it's not the Redlers that have chosen this. As Don said, one can always select the old save / close semantics in the Mellel preferences.

DRM

[jannuss]

Janet, as I understand it, these saving semantics are how Apple wants to do things now. You don't need to explicitly save, and state is always preserved when you close and open a file.

Not entirely true.

I use a number of applications that switched over to the Save as Version system as soon as Apple introduced it; I've gotten used to it,
but
none of those applications saves automatically. All still leave me the option to discard my changes on closing.

Have you never started work on a document, made a series of changes and then decided to scrap them all . . . the easiest way used to be to exit with discard changes and restart. Now, Mellel will same those changes without asking

I stick with what I said from the outset
this is either a bug and/or a bad design decision

Janet

[Eyal Redler]

Mellel 3.0 adopts that "Auto Save/Versions" feature that Apple have introduced with Lion. As far as we know and tested, we are implementing it as Apple intended with one exception, Mellel allows you to turn this behavior off and return to the old way of doing things. Apart from that, this is really like Apple have intended and could not be described as a bug. For reference you can check out "Text Edit" (On Lion) which is the "Canonical" "Document Based" application, according to Apple.

1. I fail to see what the automatic save option has to do with the choice to use versions or not -- all the other applications I use differentiate between the two

Which applications? Could it be that these applications are implementing their own versioning system?
The new system introduced with Lion ties the auto-saving with the versioning. In fact, to enable versioning the application needs to respond positively to the question "autosavesInPlace" and the whole things is packed together in the documentation and APIs.

2. I fail to understand why Mellel doesn't issue a warning when it auto-saves or at least issue a warning the first time it auto-saves

This is how autosaves work. The idea is, in fact, to avoid interaction of this kind (warning dialogs) to allow you to concentrate on the actual productivity. In addition, and this will become clearer as time passes, Apple wants to eliminate the concept of the file system in Mac OS X, at least as far as the non-power-user is concerned, just like it is on iOS.

3. I fail to understand why auto-save is the default option for 3.0

It is the default for Mellel because this is supposed to be the default behavior on Mac OS X.

[kjmatthews]

-- in 3.0 [which uses the new "Save as Version" option], when I close the file, it simply closes with no questions asked. When I reopen the document, the sensitive information is missing.

If you're on Mountain Lion, does checking the box labeled "Ask to keep changes when closing documents" in System Preferences : General address your concern?

[jannuss]

-- in 3.0 [which uses the new "Save as Version" option], when I close the file, it simply closes with no questions asked. When I reopen the document, the sensitive information is missing.

If you're on Mountain Lion, does checking the box labeled "Ask to keep changes when closing documents" in System Preferences : General address your concern?

Yes, thanks, that helps.

Also, Mountain Lion adds the option "Save All" which I don't find documented anywhere.
I assume this is an option to save without versions.
and
That means that Apple has back-tracked and removed the demand that all applications only save as versions . . . interesting.

Janet

[kjmatthews]

Also, Mountain Lion adds the option "Save All" which I don't find documented anywhere.
I assume this is an option to save without versions.
and
That means that Apple has back-tracked and removed the demand that all applications only save as versions . . . interesting.
Janet

I'm not sure if those conclusions are correct or not — I haven't done any significant research. In any case, the information at http://tidbits.com/article/13187 may be of some interest to you.

[shades]

Here is a helpful article with the differences between Lion and Mountain Lion regarding save changes, etc.Tidbits: The Very Model of a Modern Mountain Lion Document