Strange behaviour with mentions - bug or feature?

[mc7121]

I use mentions in my dissertation but I keep on encountering the following problem:

In my page header, there are two mentions: one for the current level one title and one for the current level two title.
So my header would read "3. Problems - 3.1. Introduction" for example.
So far so good.

HOWEVER, if there is a chapter that has no second level, then the mention still shows the mention for the chapter that last had one.
E.g. my 6th chapter "Conclusion" does not have any second level chapter so the header reads: "6. Conclusion - 5.4. Summary" (ie. mentioning the last chapter's second level.


Let me ask this carefully: is that a bug or a feature or can I get rid of this behaviour?

Regards
Marc

[Eyal Redler]

Hi Mark,

This is not really a bug but also not really a feature. The number of the second level title is actually undefined/invalid. I'm not sure what you're expecting here as there is no "correct" solution to this.

[mc7121]

Hi Mark,

This is not really a bug but also not really a feature. The number of the second level title is actually undefined/invalid. I'm not sure what you're expecting here as there is no "correct" solution to this.

Hi Eyal,

I would simply expect Mellel not to show any text in that case. The chapter is over. So if the mention remains pointing to any previous chapter it is obsolete and misleading.
I can hardly figure any case where the current behaviour is what you want. However, at least in my eyes, every real world use of mentions demands that mentions are omitted if the chapter they referred to (no matter the level) is over, already.

If you could "fix" that, it would save me a lot of work. Right now I have to adjust these pages manually. And I'm sure, Mellel can solve that better.

Aside from that: I'm really very happy with Mellel! It was really worth every single Euro.

All the best!
Marc

[ozean]

I think we discussed a similar issue a few weeks ago – I would prefer that a variable in this case would be displayed as empty, i.e. using non-printing text to display that the variable is currently undefined.

Perhaps we should post this (or the handling of undefined mentions in general) as a thing that people can vote about in the other part of the forum?

[mc7121]

I think we discussed a similar issue a few weeks ago – I would prefer that a variable in this case would be displayed as empty, i.e. using non-printing text to display that the variable is currently undefined.

Perhaps we should post this (or the handling of undefined mentions in general) as a thing that people can vote about in the other part of the forum?

That would be a very good solution. To me it's just important that the text doesn't print.

[Hans-Reinhard Koch]

Hi, Ori,

I have a similar problem. In my project I would like to normally mention the second level heading in the header. This however does not work, because then the header changes only, when the second level heading changes. If there is text going with the 1st level heading these pages will still receive the second level mention of the previous chapter.

e.g. the chapters are
1 Introduction
1.1 Sources
2 History
2.1 oldest history

When we are in chapter 2 History, but sub-chapter 2.1 has not yet started the header mention will still be 1.1 Sources. This does not make sense.

As Ocean pointed out, Mellel mentions should respect the end of the chapter/level they belong to and mentions should not be carried over to the next chapter. If then the mention is undefined, because the previous chapter has finished and the next sub-chapter has not yet begun, Mellel should replace the undefined mention of the lower level by the mention of the next higher level.

Only if this is implemented, it does make sense to define mentions for all possible levels of auto-titles.

Best regards Hans-Reinhard

[Ori Redler]

Hi, Ori,

I have a similar problem. In my project I would like to normally mention the second level heading in the header. This however does not work, because then the header changes only, when the second level heading changes. If there is text going with the 1st level heading these pages will still receive the second level mention of the previous chapter.

e.g. the chapters are
1 Introduction
1.1 Sources
2 History
2.1 oldest history

When we are in chapter 2 History, but sub-chapter 2.1 has not yet started the header mention will still be 1.1 Sources. This does not make sense.

As Ocean pointed out, Mellel mentions should respect the end of the chapter/level they belong to and mentions should not be carried over to the next chapter. If then the mention is undefined, because the previous chapter has finished and the next sub-chapter has not yet begun, Mellel should replace the undefined mention of the lower level by the mention of the next higher level.

Only if this is implemented, it does make sense to define mentions for all possible levels of auto-titles.

Best regards Hans-Reinhard

If to put this in simple terms, what you want is that if a level is missing, Mellel will not display the mention either, right?

[mc7121]

Hi, Ori,

I have a similar problem. In my project I would like to normally mention the second level heading in the header. This however does not work, because then the header changes only, when the second level heading changes. If there is text going with the 1st level heading these pages will still receive the second level mention of the previous chapter.

e.g. the chapters are
1 Introduction
1.1 Sources
2 History
2.1 oldest history

When we are in chapter 2 History, but sub-chapter 2.1 has not yet started the header mention will still be 1.1 Sources. This does not make sense.

As Ocean pointed out, Mellel mentions should respect the end of the chapter/level they belong to and mentions should not be carried over to the next chapter. If then the mention is undefined, because the previous chapter has finished and the next sub-chapter has not yet begun, Mellel should replace the undefined mention of the lower level by the mention of the next higher level.

Only if this is implemented, it does make sense to define mentions for all possible levels of auto-titles.

Best regards Hans-Reinhard

If to put this in simple terms, what you want is that if a level is missing, Mellel will not display the mention either, right?

I'm not the author of the post you were quoting but I started the thread so I take the liberty of answering your question with "yes".

Regards
Marc

[Hans-Reinhard Koch]

If to put this in simple terms, what you want is that if a level is missing, Mellel will not display the mention either, right?

I am sorry if I did not express myself clearly: What I mean, Ori, is: When I have defined e.g. level 3 mentions for my headers and – on a specific page – a level three is not yet defined, but the previous chapter with its last level 3 autonumber is finished long ago and my text is now governed by a level 2 or level one heading, the last level 3 mention from the previous chapter should not be carried over, but the level 3 mention should be replaced be the next higher (defined) level mention. As it is now: e. g. text of autonumber 2.7.8 is finished, yet the 2.7.8 mention is carried over to chapters 3 and 3.1 and 3.2, until another sub-chapter of level three begins e. g. with 3.2.1.

So whenever the last text, governed by a level three, is finished and the next level three sub-chapter has not yet begun, the level 3 mention should be replaced be the next higher level mention for which text exists, eg 3 or 3.1, 3.2 until text governed by a level 3 autonumber comes up.

Thus, inserting a level 3 mention into a header would mean, that mentions in the header would be level 1, 2 or maximally 3, depending on the auto-number level of the text on the page.

Does it still sound a bit confused, ot did I make myself clear?
Bets regards
Hnas-Reinhard

[haknet]

Hi folks,

Has there been any progress on this issue?

If not, look at how I worked around this problem. It's not at all perfect but it can save your day. Let's take the example of Hans-Reinhard:

1 Introduction
1.1 Sources
2 History
2.1 oldest history

When we are in chapter 2 History, but sub-chapter 2.1 has not yet started the header mention will still be 1.1 Sources. This does not make sense.

Ok say 1st level mentions are on even pages and 2nd level mentions on odd pages.

First I would go to the header with the faulty mention "1.1 sources" and replace it manually by writing the correct "2. History" in it.
Then I would point to the 2nd level 2.1 oldest history IN the main text and just before that title I would insert a page style break. Then I would reconfigure the mentions for the rest of the document (i.e. go into page on the palette, choose first page footer: yes, etc.). Done.

Can't we just have a function like "new style" or "new paragraph style" for mentions without page break. NisusClassic is a good example to follow here.

Cheers,
Hakan

[Hans-Reinhard Koch]

Thanks Hakan,
I still would prefer it, if the Redlers could come round to replace the higher level mention with the next lower level mention in headers, where the higher level mention is still undefined since the end of last chapter.
Hans-Reinhard