Mellel for my Thesis?

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Phil82
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Mellel for my Thesis?

Post by Phil82 »

A little bit of background to what I do. I'm a graduate student in computer science, majoring in neural networks.

At the moment, I'm busy writing my thesis in LaTeX. I've been told that LaTeX is a good package to use, but I've never liked it much. All those commands that clutter up my screen really make it hard to read what I've typed, so much so that it now gives me a headache.

So, I've decided to look at alternatives. MS Word is evil, because everyone I know who has written something in it, has a horror story to tell. I'm sure you've heard them too. I've checked out various other Mac word processing applications, and have finally settled on Mellel.

Here are my requirements for writing my thesis:
  • Able to generate table of contents. From my experiments, Mellel seems able to do this.
  • Integration with Bibliographic tools. From what I've read, Mellel needs an application called Bookends (which costs about $55). Is there any other cheaper application?
  • Equation editor. Mellel doesn't come with one :(. However, there is a program called LatexIT that allows me to create equations using LaTeX commands and paste them directly into Mellel. This isn't too much of a problem then.
  • Referencing figures and tables. In LaTeX, I have the \cite command, that allows me to cite figure/tables/etc in my current document. Thus, when the figure number changes, the citations in the document change as well. I don't know what this feature is called, and if it is present in Mellel?
Those are the main requirements I have for writing my thesis. I may have missed some out, but if I have, they probably aren't too important anyway :)

So.... any comments on whether I should switch from LaTeX to Mellel? I've only written some 15 pages of my Thesis, so it isn't too difficult to port things over.[/list]
nicka
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Post by nicka »

Able to generate table of contents. From my experiments, Mellel seems able to do this.
Auto-titling is one of the best features of Mellel. It's easy to have customised formats for each title level in the text, in the outline pane, in the table of contents and in the page header. There are one or two snags -- mainly the inability to have more than one character style in each title -- but there are workarounds, some of which are in previous forum posts.
Integration with Bibliographic tools. From what I've read, Mellel needs an application called Bookends (which costs about $55). Is there any other cheaper application?
There is student pricing for Bookends and it can be bought bundled with Mellel: https://www.sonnysoftware.com/order.html I think it's the best reference manager application there is (my only connection to Bookends is as a user of the software). It is frequently updated and has superb support. If you are writing a thesis it's worth the money.
Equation editor. Mellel doesn't come with one . However, there is a program called LatexIT that allows me to create equations using LaTeX commands and paste them directly into Mellel. This isn't too much of a problem then.
Yes. This works fine. Two minor issues: you have to adjust the baselines of LaTeXit equations manually in Mellel; you can't easily number equations on the right because auto-titles have to be immediately preceded by a carriage return.
Referencing figures and tables. In LaTeX, I have the \cite command, that allows me to cite figure/tables/etc in my current document. Thus, when the figure number changes, the citations in the document change as well. I don't know what this feature is called, and if it is present in Mellel?
It is sometimes called cross-referencing and it is not yet available in Mellel. However you have arrived at the right time. It is promised by the end of the year. See the thread in the other part of the forum: http://forum.redlers.com/viewtopic.php?t=662
Assuming this is accurate, by the time you have spent a few weeks experimenting with the Mellel and Bookends demos, cross-referencing should be here, possibly along with improvements to Bookends integration and more versatile auto-titling.
Mart°n
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Re: Mellel for my Thesis?

Post by Mart°n »

Able to generate table of contents.

Mellel does this quite well, but you have to use Auto-Titles of which the TOC is generated (the Mellel guide and the Beginner’s Tutorial are very helpful in learning how to set them up).

Mellel Guide 3,8 MB
Don Broadribb’s Beginner’s Tutorial in Mellel Format 9.9 MB
Other Tutorials (Website)

Integration with Bibliographic tools.

Mellel currently works with Bookends or Sente but Sente doesn’t cost less but more. Both applications have a tight integration with Mellel in order to make them work properly. Currently, you couldn’t use another app becasue of the non existent integration.

Equation editor.

As you’ve already mentioned, LaTeXiT does a good job here. If you know the LaTeX syntax, thre shouldn't be any problem.

Referencing figures and tables.

This feature is called Cross-References and it isn't available in the current version of Mellel, but it’s a highly requested one. The Redlers have promised to have the feature ready by the end of this year, so if you have to deliver your work in 2007, you could wait for the next version of Mellel, if your deadline arises in 2 weeks, you have to either update the references by hand or search for another app that does it right now.
Phil82
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Post by Phil82 »

I've spent most of today downloading the Mellel tutorials, and transfering the chapter that I've written into Mellel. The result: I am amazed :shock:. The tutorial for beginners, which is 232 pages in length with assorted figures opens in 4 seconds on my Macbook. That is amazing.

I've also been playing around with outlining. I really really like how I can drag sections about, and completely reorder my document. I've tried doing that in LaTeX and I ended up crying...

I'm going to write a paper for a conference in Mellel to get a feel for it. I've already bought a license for it, so I may as well give it a go ;). Bookends seems to work for now, and that 50 reference limit isn't going to be reached anytime soon with this paper I'm writing.
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Post by rpcameron »

Phil82 wrote:I've spent most of today downloading the Mellel tutorials, and transfering the chapter that I've written into Mellel. The result: I am amazed :shock:. The tutorial for beginners, which is 232 pages in length with assorted figures opens in 4 seconds on my Macbook. That is amazing.

I've also been playing around with outlining. I really really like how I can drag sections about, and completely reorder my document. I've tried doing that in LaTeX and I ended up crying...

I'm going to write a paper for a conference in Mellel to get a feel for it. I've already bought a license for it, so I may as well give it a go ;). Bookends seems to work for now, and that 50 reference limit isn't going to be reached anytime soon with this paper I'm writing.
Mellel has been an amazing piece of software for me with its ability to seamlessly integrate multiple scripts and styles, and have everything come out looking beautiful. Also, its structure and style system is amazing.

However, if you do wish to investigate a LaTeX (or ConTeXt) editor that does drag-and-drop reordering as well as many other features that are important for large projects, perhaps you should take a look at Kile. It does require the KDE libraries, but it is an great piece of software, as well.
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Post by alexwein »

Phil82 wrote:I've also been playing around with outlining. I really really like how I can drag sections about, and completely reorder my document. I've tried doing that in LaTeX and I ended up crying.
No need for tears. This is the thing I love most about Mellel and why it is the only choice for me for word processors. I have a 300+ page document with many sections and subsections and being able to both see the entire structure as well as organize it via the outlining pane is unparalleled in any other word processor. Add to that the ease of managing multiple note streams and you have my own top two reasons for loving Mellel. I don't need cross-referencing as yet, but as others have mentioned, it has been promised that it is coming soon.

Btw, that 300+ page document is my dissertation, and I also use Bookends as my reference manager. I'm way past the 50 reference mark, since I house all my references, ones I need now or might ever need, in the program.

So, I think you made a wise choice! :) Mellel isn't perfect, but I believe it's well worth investing in for what it offers at present and what it will offer in the future!

Alexandria
Phil82
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Post by Phil82 »

rpcameron wrote: However, if you do wish to investigate a LaTeX (or ConTeXt) editor that does drag-and-drop reordering as well as many other features that are important for large projects, perhaps you should take a look at Kile. It does require the KDE libraries, but it is an great piece of software, as well.
I think my goal is to get away from LaTeX. Have a look at this screenshot from the Kile homepage. That's exactly how my thesis looks like, and when it's 20 pages long I'm already having headaches.

I'm sure some people are able to handle reading with all those commands that clutter up the document. Alas, I'm not one of them.
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Post by macsailor »

Phil82 wrote:
I think my goal is to get away from LaTeX. Have a look at this screenshot from the Kile homepage. That's exactly how my thesis looks like, and when it's 20 pages long I'm already having headaches.

I'm sure some people are able to handle reading with all those commands that clutter up the document. Alas, I'm not one of them.

Same here. I would never stand reading or writing as showed at the screenshot at the Kile homepage.

Compared to Kile, for me, Mellel is heaven for that matter of my writings. (Even if it's not (yet) a perfect heaven :wink: )
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Normand
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Post by Normand »

Hi Phil82,

Maybe you would be interested by this discussion:
http://forum.redlers.com/viewtopic.php?t=529

Normand
Phil82
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Post by Phil82 »

Thanks for that normand. It is a highly informative post! However, I think all the solutions, apart from LaTeXiT cost money. For my purposes right now, I think LaTeXiT works, as I just copy the equations from my LaTeX document, and it seems to generate them fine. Not only that, the history is handy so I don't have to re-type equations should I wish to modify them. Would be nice to know what the history length of LaTeXiT was though....

Anyway, equations ain't really a problem for me. Thanks for the heads up though :)
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Post by nicka »

LaTeXiT works ... the history is handy so I don't have to re-type equations should I wish to modify them.
You can also copy the equation in Mellel and paste it back into LaTeXiT. I guess it's not quite as intuitive as something like LinkBack where double clicking the object opens the editing application -- but it's a good deal of the way there, and it means you don't have to worry about finding equations in your LaTeXiT history.

(Edited for spelling)
Phil82
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Post by Phil82 »

I didn't know that! That's an awesome feature! Thanks for telling.
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Re: Mellel for my Thesis?

Post by Ori Redler »

You've arrived at the right time doubly: both tighter integration with bibliographic tools and cross referencing are now in the process of being programmed...
Ori Redler from RedleX
Phil82
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Post by Phil82 »

Is there an ETA for this new version?
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