syncing to iDisk

[catanalotes]

Hi,

I'm new to Mellel and have been having trouble syncing Mellel documents to my iDisk. That is, they "sync" but when I go to access them from a different computer I don't get the updated version of the document. I did a search on these forums and, if I understand correctly, syncing to the iDisk is not a feature of Mellel. Is that correct? I didn't know that syncing was dependent upon the application.

Syncing to the iDisk is a very important feature for me. I would appreciate any and all information/help on this topic.

Thanks!

[rpcameron]

You can manually copy your documents to your iDisk, but Mellel does not synchronize the documents itself.

[catanalotes]

Yes, getting Mellel documents onto the iDisk is not a problem, and accessing them from a different computer (via iDisk) is not a problem. The problem is that, even after syncing, the document accessed from the other computer does not reflect the latest changes made to the document. From the experimenting I've done, it seems that this is only a problem with Mellel documents: modified TextEdit and Microsoft Word documents seem to sync without a problem (and the updated version appears when accessed through the iDisk).

[Boban]

It works a dream for me. I have a folder on my iDisk called something like 'articles and books backup' and after working I drop the ones I had been working on into the folder. When I access them from work –presto – there they are. I wonder if you have identical style sets on the different machines? I've had that problem; or are you speaking about content, rather than formatting?

B.

[catanalotes]

Thank you, Boban, for chiming in. Other than this problem the iDisk works like a dream for me too. It's very handy and I rely heavily on it. That's why if Mellel is somehow incompatible with it it will greatly reduce Mellel's value for me. By the way, I'm quite certain the issue is with content not formatting: we're talkin' whole paragraphs missing from the synced version accessed from another computer.

[coventrm]

Hi folks--

Does this have anything to do with the fact that Mellel documents are an XML Package? I use an online file storage service provided by my university as my offsite backup, and in order to store files there I have to archive them and upload the zip (the Mellel files don't upload properly)

Michael

[catanalotes]

Yes, what you mention seems exactly to be the problem. The solution has to do with compressing and then decompressing the Mellel files.

FYI, I know this because, while I had abandoned this post for lack of response, I took up the topic in another string in which the replies were related to my question. If you're interested in following the thread (which isn't very long), here's the link:

http://forum.redlers.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1609

The info on this that I gleaned from the forum has also been confirmed in a personal e-mail response from Ori Redler.

[JimmyMonkey]

I just discovered today that the updates to files on one computer were not being reflected in the files on other computers connected to my iDisk. It also explains why I kept thinking I was losing work. So I've been tampering with more than one file and now I have to go back and reconcile the changes made on both machines. (If you're only working on a little document, you would notice immediately something is wrong; my document is very large and so I've been working in different sections of the document at home and in my office . . . only to find that I've been working on TWO!!! documents.

Frankly, this is that straw that's breaking the camel's back. It's just not good enough that I have to zip my files every time I also save them so they can do what every single other Mac file can do: sync with iDisk. I have absolutely no idea what is involved in making folders/files syncable with iDisk, it only matters whether I can or can't. And apparently, we can't. I've said this before, as much as I hate to, but Word 08 can do basically everything Mellel can plus a lot more (I realize there are a few Mellel things Word can't do, but I don't really use any of them). It's tiring to have to struggle with Mellel to do fairly basic things, to have to convert files to Word for editors and colleagues, to lay out images and boxes properly in OTHER applications after having written something with Mellel, because Mellel can't wrap text. And now it can't update iDisk syncs either. Not cool! I just wish the Redlers would attend to these small things that smooth out integration and general ease of use before going on to do the big and wonderful things (like catching up and excelling in xrefs).

[verma]

I just discovered today that the updates to files on one computer were not being reflected in the files on other computers connected to my iDisk. It also explains why I kept thinking I was losing work. So I've been tampering with more than one file and now I have to go back and reconcile the changes made on both machines. (If you're only working on a little document, you would notice immediately something is wrong; my document is very large and so I've been working in different sections of the document at home and in my office . . . only to find that I've been working on TWO!!! documents.

Frankly, this is that straw that's breaking the camel's back. It's just not good enough that I have to zip my files every time I also save them so they can do what every single other Mac file can do: sync with iDisk. I have absolutely no idea what is involved in making folders/files syncable with iDisk, it only matters whether I can or can't. And apparently, we can't. I've said this before, as much as I hate to, but Word 08 can do basically everything Mellel can plus a lot more (I realize there are a few Mellel things Word can't do, but I don't really use any of them). It's tiring to have to struggle with Mellel to do fairly basic things, to have to convert files to Word for editors and colleagues, to lay out images and boxes properly in OTHER applications after having written something with Mellel, because Mellel can't wrap text. And now it can't update iDisk syncs either. Not cool! I just wish the Redlers would attend to these small things that smooth out integration and general ease of use before going on to do the big and wonderful things (like catching up and excelling in xrefs).

I hope you don't feel like someone's forcing you to stay with Mellel. If you're happy with Word 08, I'd say... stick with Word 08.

P.S. Automator allows you to automate the zip-process of your Mellel files that you want to sync. You can create a smart folder with your Mellel files you worked on that day, feed those to Automator for zipping and adding to your iDisk on the desktop. The sync process is then just 2 clicks away.

[catanalotes]

I would just like to say that I can certainly sympathize with JimmyMonkey's frustration. It is frustrating that I can't just "drag and drop" my Mellel files directly into the iDisk, and it is a pain in the neck to always have to compress (and decompress).

Having said that, I thought it might be helpful (to anyone) to paste in the e-mail response I received from Ori Redler in regards to this question:

"The problem, foolishly enough, is that the .Mac site do not work well with the "package" format by Apple -- Mellel uses the package format, which allows us to do very nice things like putting all the images in a separate folder within the Mellel document... but this creates problems with some unix servers. You will need to compress the Mellel files so this would work well."

So, if I understand right, the problem lies with Mac's iDisk rather than Mellel. Still, it's little comfort . . .

Anyway, I for one am going to try to stay the course with Mellel, despite my iDisk/compressing woes. Time will tell, as I use Mellel more and become more familiar with it, whether this deficiency (regardless of where the blame lies) will turn me off entirely.

So, in line with my positive attitude (so far) . . .
Verma, if you could provide me with more detailed information about how to set up Automator to zip my Mellel files, I would be very grateful. (Unfortunately, I confess I am completely unfamiliar with Automator and have never used it before.)

Thanks.

[bluesdance]

Isn't an iDisk a dockable drive, like you can just move files on and off it? If so I can't possibly begin to understand what the problem is -- you can just copy the file when you're done working with it... right?

Anyway I feel ya'. There are PLENTY of things about Mellel that I see as depressingly behind the times, but since I work with pointed Hebrew I don't have the option of switching to anything else.

I think we as Mellel customers need to be unafraid of giving voice to specific criticisms of the program and allowing others to express their frustrations (rather than saying something like "If you don't like it, leave! And while you're at it... switch to Windows!! And move to Canada!!!)

One huge benefit of using Mellel is this forum, which is a fantastic resource. Hooray for the Redlers forum.

[verma]

The procedure I use for syncing my weekly Mellel files to iDisk is the following one:


Preparation:
Make a Smart Folder that looks for recently modified Mellel files. I set mine to one week - that's more than enough for me. Save the smart folder (I also put it in my sidebar, but YMMV of course).
End of preparation

Automator:
1. Open Automator.
2. Choose "Custom"
3. Select and drag action "Ask for Finder items" into Automator's working space | Leave the prompt for what it is, and select the newly created Smart Folder (SavedSearches) in "Start at" - Type: Files - allow multiple selection if you want to select more than one file.
4. Drag the action "Create Archive" under the first action. "Save as": give a name you want. Where: select a folder on your iDisk.

That's it, basically. You then save your workflow (I save it in the scripts folder, and have the Apple Scripts menu bar item activated so you can access it from there) and that's it.

I now simply go to the Scripts icon in the menu bar, select the workflow for Mellel syncing, then select the files I want to send to iDisk and I'm ready for other things.

Hope this helps.

[verma]

I think we as Mellel customers need to be unafraid of giving voice to specific criticisms of the program and allowing others to express their frustrations (rather than saying something like "If you don't like it, leave! And while you're at it... switch to Windows!! And move to Canada!!!)

On one condition: that the fault lies with Mellel. Syncing with iDisk without compressing is not only problematic for Mellel files. I've had similar problems with all tex-related files, with OOpro files etc. As a rule of thumb, I only sync to iDisk using compression.

[JimmyMonkey]

Well, I spent all day playing around with various options and arrived at the automator solution, came to log on and crow about my success only to find Verma had already mentioned it. It's a BIT better. Still, a pain in the arse.

Bluesdance:
(A) the issue is that the file/package will go on to the local copy of iDisk just fine, it's when you go to another computer to try to retrieve it from the virtual iDisk that one discovers that only the first instance of the file is available, no updated/modified instances are available.

(B) Indeed. I'm fairly new to this, so whenever I come on here and ask about something and find out that something really weird has to be done, I usually say so. The responses are things like: "What?! You can't draw in by hand your own images later??? . . . I seem to have no trouble doing it with my PhD thesis." And (this one is true), "I make little marks throughout all four hundred pages of my PhD thesis and go back and manually construct all of my cross-references . . . I seem to have no problem, so Mellel works like a charm"! So, yes, I think we need to debate the issues without pretending that the Redlers are the second coming of Christ . . . I guess that'd be the first coming of the Messiah for them . . . and that Mellel is the Holy Grail of word processors. It's delightful, but far from perfect and needs lots of work, but still, a delight to work with . . . on its own when you don't have to work with anyone else or backup to iDisk.

Catanalotes: you've got to be the calmest person I've ever come across in a forum. Thanks for the info from the Redlers, it does allow me have a better attitude. I've promoted Mellel to so many people (students and colleagues) and I get pretty bent out of shape when I find out this sort of thing. So a word from the master is helpful indeed.

[rpcameron]

Isn't an iDisk a dockable drive, like you can just move files on and off it? If so I can't possibly begin to understand what the problem is -- you can just copy the file when you're done working with it... right?

Although the iDisk drive looks like a local drive when mounted, the way it is handled by the server it actually resides on is different from server to server.

A similar situation would be mounted SMB/CIFS (Windows volumes). HFS+ (the Mac's native filesystem) supports arbitrary attributes being embedded with a file, but the SMB mounted volume does not. As such, when you copy a file from a Mac's HFS+ volume that has attributes embedded in the file, those are not copied over to the SMB volume, but the main content of the file is, so it looks like everything copied over fine. Then, if you try to retrieve that same file from the SMB volume, and open it up on your Mac, you won't find the embedded attributes because they were stripped when they were copied the first time.

Although it is not quite a direct parallel to iDisk, the situation is actually pretty similar. Mounted iDisks use a network protocol called WebDAV, which does not support all of the filesystem features that a Mac normally does. It is most likely a discrepancy between the two filesystem types that is the root of the problem, especially since WebDAV looks at OS X bundles (such as Mellel files) as folders and not discrete files.