Paragraphs breaking

For all things Mellel

Moderators: Eyal Redler, redlers, Ori Redler

Post Reply
Declan
Knows everything, can prove it
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:28 am

Paragraphs breaking

Post by Declan »

I'm not sure why, but in the document I'm currently working on (if it's relevant, its 218 pages long, but that shouldn't be a problem), various paragraphs are broken up such that I get a line or two on one page, a line or two on the following page, and a line or two on a third page. These paragraphs do have footnotes, but the styles used are the same as those used on other pages where this is not happening. So, using the same styles I get normal behaviour on most pages, but every now and again I get this behaviour.
I have looked at the normally invisible characters to see if somehow breaks had been introduced, but no breaks appear.
What else should I check for?

Thanks,
Declan
DavidH
Knows everything, can prove it
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:13 pm

Re: Paragraphs breaking

Post by DavidH »

It may simply be a consequence of two built-in constraints. Mellel always starts a footnote on the same page as the footnote reference, and it does its best to put the whole text of a footnote on the page where the footnote begins. Sometimes the only way to meet these constraints results in pages with a tiny bit of text at the top and (perhaps) a lonely short footnote at the bottom, since there isn’t enough room left on the page for both the text leading up to the next footnote marker and the whole of the next footnote.

The only surefire way to avoid such problems is to use endnotes rather than footnotes. But you can often even things out a good deal, minimizing the amount of conspicuous blank space, by adding page breaks elsewhere in the section. Page breaks earlier in the main text of the section can put smaller amounts of blank space on pages prior to the page that looked so awkward in the first place, with the result that more text fits on the previously awkward page. And you can manually split long footnotes at will by adding a page break to the footnote itself.

This sort of thing is fussy, and needs to be undone for export and redone if you change fonts or sizes. Sometimes the best course is to get rid of longer footnotes entirely by splitting them in two or incorporating their substance into the main text.

These headaches come with using footnotes in a word processor, they aren’t Mellel-specific.
Declan
Knows everything, can prove it
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:28 am

Re: Paragraphs breaking

Post by Declan »

Thanks: I'll try that. Sounds like it might work. I don't remember it happening with other documents of the same length. Maybe I used more breaks... We'll see.

Declan
Declan
Knows everything, can prove it
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:28 am

Re: Paragraphs breaking

Post by Declan »

No, I've tried putting in lots of page breaks, but it doesn't help at all. The paragraphs are obstinately broken up, even where there are not footnotes. In one case I get a single word on the page on its own, without any footnotes attached. Not great!
Since it didn't happen in the past might it be a bug in this version of Mellel? I'm using 5.0.8r6.

Declan
DavidH
Knows everything, can prove it
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:13 pm

Re: Paragraphs breaking

Post by DavidH »

I haven't noticed any problems with this version myself, but it's possible. The behavior certainly sounds strange enough to warrant a support request. Sending along a copy of the misbehaving document may help Eyal work out what's going on.
Amontillado
Knows everything, can prove it
Posts: 148
Joined: Fri May 04, 2018 4:00 am

Re: Paragraphs breaking

Post by Amontillado »

The latest version is 5.0.8r7. Probably not a major upgrade over 5.0.8r6, but it likely includes bug fixes.
Icelander
Knows everything, can prove it
Posts: 366
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:59 pm

Re: Paragraphs breaking

Post by Icelander »

Declan wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 9:47 am What else should I check for?
Dear Declan,

Try to copy the whole document and paste the content into a new fresh document. Is the new document OK or is it still flawed?

Check this out:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1908&p=11708&hilit=culprit#p11708

If this doesn't help, upload the document or relevant parts of it and I'll take a look at it. If it contains sensitive information you can use a FindSet to scramble the text. This will make the text unreadable, but will leave all formatting elements—including figures and images—in tact. If you don't have such a FindSet, you can download one here (ignore the advertisement):
https://www.mediafire.com/file/py5drgxn ... s.zip/file

Unzip the file and you'll see the FindSet as a .pfs file inside. All you need to do is to import it. Don't double-click on it! That might cause another program to open it. If in doubt, follow the instructions in the Mellel Guide on p. 220:

Send me a private message.
Declan
Knows everything, can prove it
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:28 am

Re: Paragraphs breaking

Post by Declan »

Thanks!
I already tried the first thing: copying the text into a new document.
I will certainly send you a copy: most grateful.
Maybe we can figure out what's going on, and perhaps describe a bug that needs fixing, or whatever.


Declan
Icelander
Knows everything, can prove it
Posts: 366
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:59 pm

Re: Paragraphs breaking

Post by Icelander »

Declan wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:06 pm I will certainly send you a copy: most grateful.
I'm still waiting… Are you OK?
Bulow
Knows everything, can prove it
Posts: 161
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:49 am
Location: Paris (sometimes Copenhagen)

Re: Paragraphs breaking

Post by Bulow »

Have you tried in the 'note attributes' to play with the option 'may separate from reference' and 'may split'?
Bulow
Declan
Knows everything, can prove it
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:28 am

Re: Paragraphs breaking

Post by Declan »

Apologies: I got distracted there. I am returning to work on this document some months later.
I can't select "May separate from reference" for some reason. Here's my note attributes screenshot: https://capture.dropbox.com/lShBip8Pj6AkgKnH
Declan
Knows everything, can prove it
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:28 am

Re: Paragraphs breaking

Post by Declan »

The problem is certainly something to do with the footnotes, because if I change them to endnotes, it all flows normally. But I can't use endnotes in this case.

Thanks for any help in figuring this out.

Declan
Declan
Knows everything, can prove it
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:28 am

Re: Paragraphs breaking

Post by Declan »

OK: I've sorted it out (kind of). I am making this third comment today for posterity.
It turns out that if you choose "Continuous" numbering for the footnotes, rather than "restart every section", "May Separate from Reference" become available, and choosing this sorts out my problem.
I'm not sure if this is a bug or not. I would certainly prefer to be able to restart my footnote numbering with each chapter (i.e. section), but this seems to cause the other problem.
Should "May Separate from Reference" be available when "Restart every Section" is chosen?
Post Reply