improved German hyphenation

Feature requests, and in-depth discussions of features and the way Mellel works

Moderators: Eyal Redler, redlers, Ori Redler

Hans-Reinhard Koch
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Post by Hans-Reinhard Koch »

ntrü: Steintrümmer
I had posted Linsentrübung before, of course
Hans-Reinhard Koch, Bonn, Germany
Hans-Reinhard Koch
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Post by Hans-Reinhard Koch »

ditan: Kreditantrag, Kreditanstalt
Hans-Reinhard Koch, Bonn, Germany
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Post by Hans-Reinhard Koch »

ntrü: entrüstet, entrückt, entrümpelt and related words
Hans-Reinhard Koch, Bonn, Germany
Reiner
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Post by Reiner »

thank you very much for your replies. But sadly it is not a week of vacation.

I will let you know when I'm back and will post the improved dic.
Reiner
Hans-Reinhard Koch
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Post by Hans-Reinhard Koch »

Reiner,

I have just found out a simple way of how to find "ntrü" and other letter combinations in German words. Go to to an online dictionary like:

http://dict.leo.org/

Choose German as your source language.

Enter the letter combination enclosed within two "*" (wild card) characters – e. g. *ntrü* – into the search field. It will return all words containing the searched letter combination.

Sorry it's not a vacation!

Hans-Reinhard
Hans-Reinhard Koch, Bonn, Germany
matthias
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Post by matthias »

Reiner,

I came across one more thing: "d-aneben" should be "da-ne-ben". I am curious. Is this going to be in the rules or will it be an exception?
Otherwise: Great improvement over the original version!

Matthias
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Post by Reiner »

matthias wrote:Reiner,

I came across one more thing: "d-aneben" should be "da-ne-ben". I am curious. Is this going to be in the rules or will it be an exception?
Both would be possible for this word, but I will insert

Code: Select all

.d8a
so no word starting with "da" will be hyphenated between d and a.
Reiner
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Post by Reiner »

@Maria
I thought that your improvements are included in the hyphenation dictionary distributed with Mellel. But it seams as if not all of them are. Some definitely are.

While I worked lot of hours improving the dictionary I decided to work further on my own dictionary. But I am going through your protocols to include your improvements to my dictionary as well. It seams as if your patterns are more elegant as mine but I also have the impression that my dictionary handles more hyphenations correctly as yours.

@all
I made further major changes to the dic so it could be that correct hyphenations are no longer working correctly in the newest one. So please test the newest dic very roughly. And please post any wrong hyphenated words here.

The dictionary is still work in progress. I will delete more and more unnecessary exceptions but this will take more time. When I will have finished this and finished the inclusion of Maria's improvements I will send the dic to Ori and he will upload it to the official Mellel homepage and will include it in the next official Mellel update.

here again are the links to download the most actual version:
Last edited by Reiner on Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reiner
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Post by Reiner »

if you look to long at hyphenations sometimes it can occur that right and false are no longer clear, so excuse my stupid question:

Is it correct to hyphenate

Code: Select all

be-mäng-le
or is

Code: Select all

be-män-gle
correct?

Thanks.
Last edited by Reiner on Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reiner
matthias
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Post by matthias »

Reiner wrote:if you look to long at hyphenations sometimes it can occur that right and false are no longer clear, so excuse my stupid question:

Is it correct to hyphenate

Code: Select all

be-mäng-le
or is
code]be-män-gle[/code]
correct?

Thanks.
I'd say the latter is correct as the Duden suggests:

Code: Select all

be-män-geln
Hans-Reinhard Koch
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Post by Hans-Reinhard Koch »

Hi,

I disagree with Mathias: I would hyphenate "be-mäng-le", although it is "be-män-geln" in the infintive form. Similarly I would hyphenate "be-mänt-le" and "be-män-teln". There is also "be-män-ge-le" and "be-män-te-le"

Hans-Reinhard
Hans-Reinhard Koch, Bonn, Germany
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Post by Hans-Reinhard Koch »

Dear Reiner,

Thanks for the new post. The German hyphenation gets better and better. I am especially happy that you solved the "Trenne nie S-T, denn es tut ihm weh!" problem.

Here are some more wrong hyphenations to work on:

„Schutz-pa-tron“ instead of „Schutz-pa-t-ron“
„als-dann“ instead of „als-d-ann“
„ein-dring-lich “ instead of „ein-d-ring-lich “
„ein-drin-gen“ instead of „ein-d-rin-gen“
„Hohl-raum“ instead of „Hohl-ra-um“
„ Lu-xem-burg “ instead of „ Lu-x-em-burg “
„Vor-wand“ instead of „Vor-w-and“
„Star-operationen“ instead of „ Sta-r-operationen“
„Spott-lie-des“ instead of „„Spo-ttlie-des“ “
„ ver-sof-fe-nen“ instead of „ ver-soffe-nen“
„Jo-hann“ instead of „Jo-h-ann“
„ver-dan-ken“ instead of „ver-d-an-ken“
„reist“ instead of „re-ist“
„Lehr-kan-zel“ instead of „Lehr-k-an-zel“

I do not remeber whether I asked you this before: Does Hyphenation Lab offer a solution for the German hyphenation rule that

"ck" often becomes "k-k" and
"ß" often becomes "s-s"

If not, you might want to contact the Redlers and ask if this feature can be built into the Hyphenation Lab.

Regards
Hans-Reinhard
Hans-Reinhard Koch, Bonn, Germany
Reiner
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Post by Reiner »

Hans-Reinhard Koch wrote:Hi,

I disagree with Mathias: I would hyphenate "be-mäng-le", although it is "be-män-geln" in the infintive form. Similarly I would hyphenate "be-mänt-le" and "be-män-teln". There is also "be-män-ge-le" and "be-män-te-le"

Hans-Reinhard
I also see it like you do but I was not sure anymore after staring at it for about five minutes. ;-)
Reiner
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Post by Reiner »

Hans-Reinhard Koch wrote:Dear Reiner,

Thanks for the new post. The German hyphenation gets better and better. I am especially happy that you solved the "Trenne nie S-T, denn es tut ihm weh!" problem.
That was not a big deal. But it is nice to hear that somebody realizes your work :D
Hans-Reinhard Koch wrote:I do not remeber whether I asked you this before: Does Hyphenation Lab offer a solution for the German hyphenation rule that

"ck" often becomes "k-k" and
"ß" often becomes "s-s"

If not, you might want to contact the Redlers and ask if this feature can be built into the Hyphenation Lab.

Regards
Hans-Reinhard
This is not possible with MHL at the moment I think. But with new rules it is not necessary anymore I think. (Or did I oversee something here?)

But if you want to make a hyphenation dic for old German rules this has to be possible, otherwise correct hyphenation following the old rules would never be possible.

But why should I ask the Redlers and why don't you create a poll here in the forum or write to them directly yourself? I don't have a special line to call them ;-)

best regards,
Reiner
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Post by Reiner »

once again new files are uploaded, see the links above.

the file-size of the dic is getting smaller and smaller while I rework exceptions to patterns whenever it is possible. while I'm only at the beginning with this process, I already made over 600 changes to the patterns not counted the changes to the exceptions.

Please test the dic as hard as possible and post occuring errros here. Thanks a lot. I think in a few weeks we will have a much improved German hyphenation dictionary this way.
Reiner
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